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Author | Topic: Women. Religion’s longest running victims. | |||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
It's the same here. Ask the next homeless person you see how safe and healthy their environment is.
You asked earlier about how I understood prosperity. I said, "I simply meant a safer, healthier environment for everyone regardless of any belief system". That is not the case in Saudi. It works for those who have the "right" breeding and the "right"set of beliefs, and it works for those who serve them but not so well for everyone else. GDR writes:
Since you ask:
How many people from the rest of the world are clamoring to get into Saudi as compared to our own country?quote: GDR writes:
Not at all. I contend that your idea of prosperity is useles when applied to this thread.
You ask what I meant by prosperity and then continue to contend that I mean something else by it.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
ringo writes: It's the same here. Ask the next homeless person you see how safe and healthy their environment is. Sure we have our homelessness. However there are numerous government programs as well many non-governmental programs. Read this account of homelessness in Saudi and tell me where you would rather be homeless. Erreur 404 - Page non trouve - Les Observateurs - France 24
ringo writes: Since you ask: The 2010 edition of the Central Intelligence Agency's World Factbook estimated that non-nationals represented 5,576,076 out of a population of 25,731,776 in Saudi Arabia. However, official 2010 census figures stated that there were 8,429,401 expatriates out of a total population of 27,136,977 or roughly 31 per cent of the total. link WE have a friend with severe MS. She has a caregiver from the Philippines who worked in Saudi before coming here. She went there as a nanny to make money temporarily. She mover here because she wants to take up permanent residence.
ringo writes: I view prosperity as being more than just about money but if you like then use quality of life. Not at all. I contend that your idea of prosperity is useles when applied to this thread.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
The point is that "prosperity" is highly subjective. I view prosperity as being more than just about money but if you like then use quality of life. You said in Message 4 that, "The countries that have prospered are the countries that have educated their women," which seemed to suggest a cause-and-effect relationship. I'm saying that, since "prosperity" is not an absolute or objective quantity, it would be dificult to establish a correlation between "prosperity" and education for women - much less a cause-and-effect.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
ringo writes: The point is that "prosperity" is highly subjective.You said in Message 4 that, "The countries that have prospered are the countries that have educated their women," which seemed to suggest a cause-and-effect relationship. I'm saying that, since "prosperity" is not an absolute or objective quantity, it would be dificult to establish a correlation between "prosperity" and education for women - much less a cause-and-effect. Fair enough. Can we agree then that the societies that educate their women enjoy a higher "quality of life" on average. (Subjectively I would add by a considerable amount.) And yes I am suggesting a cause-and-effect.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
GDR writes: Fair enough. Can we agree then that the societies that educate their women enjoy a higher "quality of life" on average. (Subjectively I would add by a considerable amount.) And yes I am suggesting a cause-and-effect. Yes, of course you're right. Any suggestion otherwise is just being argumentative for the sake of it.Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
Enjoyment is subjective. Quality of life is subjective. Can we agree then that the societies that educate their women enjoy a higher "quality of life" on average. For various reasons, our society (eventually, reluctantly) decided to educate women. We didn't reason, "Hey, if we educate our women we'll become more prosperous." We were already pretty prosperous before that, so I don't see how a cause-and-effect can be established. I might suggest instead that education of women and other minorities is something that prosperos societies can afford.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
Note that there is an argument for the "otherwise" - while you have provided none for the "of course".
Yes, of course you're right. Any suggestion otherwise is just being argumentative for the sake of it.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
If societies can afford to educate men they can afford to educate women. Regardless of how reluctant the change was the cause and effect was that the quality of life improved for our society.
He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
If you educate only group A, you can give them "more education" than if you educate both group A and group B - same amount of money spent, same "amount" of education, different dilution. Is a society full of waitresses with sociology degrees necessarily "more prosperous"?
If societies can afford to educate men they can afford to educate women. GDR writes:
Pro hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.
Regardless of how reluctant the change was the cause and effect was that the quality of life improved for our society.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
Argue it if you like but IMHO a society that is more educated regardless of their occupation has a higher quality of life than one that is less educated.
He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
I've never suggested that that isn't your opinion, only that your opinion is parochial.
Argue it if you like but IMHO a society that is more educated regardless of their occupation has a higher quality of life than one that is less educated.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Ringo writes: Note that there is an argument for the "otherwise" - while you have provided none for the "of course". This is one of those arguments that are really silly. We both know that it's qualitatively better to have a higher quality of life than a lower one and that societies that educate women are more prosperous than those that don't. If you wished to argue that educating women isn't the dependent variable and instead is a marker for a correlation I'd agree. The causal effect is treating women equally in society. And that is worth doing simply because it is right to do it.Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
ringo writes: I've never suggested that that isn't your opinion, only that your opinion is parochial. So you're saying your opinion is that my opinion is wrong.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
Yes, we both know that good things are better than bad things. What we don't "know" - we only have opinions - is what is "good" and what is "better".
We both know that it's qualitatively better to have a higher quality of life than a lower one.... Tangle writes:
BING-fucking-GO! Give the man a cigar! The causal effect is treating women equally in society. And that is worth doing simply because it is right to do it. We treat women equally because it's the right thing to do. It's not about "prosperity" at all. We would (or should) treat women equally even if it landed us in the poorhouse.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
GDR writes:
No. I'm saying that your opinion is not founded in fact - at least it has not been established as founded in fact.
So you're saying your opinion is that my opinion is wrong.
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