Lessons of Genesis (B'resheet)

One issue with any look at the Bible (OT or NT) is that it is impossible in most cases to tell what has been redacted, how many times that has happened and who did the redaction. To step beyond that to try to determine the motive is even more difficult. But it's likely that the original authors had many of the same motives as the later editors. While that is certainly true, it is not, IMHO the only time it was true. Long before the exile, there was the creation of a Hebrew people out of all of the various semitic folk in the area. The early Genesis tales seem to point towards that period. For example, the tales of Cain and Able are remarkably like the conflict between the nomadic hunter gatherer herder and the settled farmer.Many of the early tales, Genesis, Exodus, seem to deal with that earliest phase of creating an identity. Those same tales were later revised post exile and reused. But the earliest forms seem to be an attempt to unify family tribal groups into some larger identity.Also, let me expand slightly on my use of the term Authority. I was not limiting it the authority of the King or even any one group (though there are definite examples of establishing the hierarchy all the way down to the tent or family level) but rather the authority and legitimacy of the history.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Also, let me expand slightly on my use of the term Authority. I was not limiting it the authority of the King or even any one group (though there are definite examples of establishing the hierarchy all the way down to the tent or family level) but rather the authority and legitimacy of the history.

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A history from a priestly point of view. All they had left was their religion.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

Actually, some go back to before the priestly periods. They do mention GOD but it is almost as an aside. Look at Genesis 12. Here we don't see GOD as was seen under the Priests, but rather a family GOD, one of many. He is the GOD of Abraham's family and in the passage we see the prediction and legitmizing of establishing a nation.This is the authority I was speaking about.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

read it again. he's not blaming it on eve. what does he say? this woman which you put here with me. he's blaming it on god. it has nothing to do with the constructed feminist interpretation of oppression. it's a much more powerful statement of humanity's immaturity and inability to continue a relationship with god. so we were 'cast out of the garden'. ie put in the spiritual doghouse of separation from god until we grew up. which... i'm not sure we're doing as a whole.

very interesting interpretation... i like that idea.and i just got a terrible picture of that song from oklahoma about the rancher and the cowman... *shudders*

i suspect that if we truly examine the cultural context of these stories, we will find the moralistic teachings will evaporate. i do not think these stories were written to teach morals. it's a common view that they were. but these tend to be later midrashim and christian interpretations. i suspect that genesis has other goals, but not moralistic ones. for moralistic books, we can read some of the prophets, or perhaps proverbs. well, at this time there is no hebrew area. this is abraham, who was the father of the hebrews. however, the story is written much later through obviously biased hebrew eyes. this bias can of course be seen in the rest of the book.a cultural understanding of the surroundings at the time this story was set is not really important. we'd learn more about the story by learning about cultural context in which it was written. and i suspect that genesis was largely devised in babylonian exile.it sort of changes the meaning of these stories from moralistic to political. they are about how an isolated and foreign hebrew relates to a king. and lying to the king seems effective. maybe the authors are trying to tell the population who they should relate to their captors. granted, it's good to know the bit above this. it's actually more or less implied from the story. however, this bit is not true in relation to the isaac story, and that's why i brought it up in particular. when the story is applied to isaac, it's actually a lie. rebekah is not his sister. and yet the outcome is the same.god is clearly not letting them slip by on half truths. this is a sort of apologetic reading of the text. if this story is teaching us anything, it's teaching that lying is ok under some circumstances. if it's teaching anything. i'm not sure it is.

i had this thought the other day, while looking at some jeff koons artwork with religious/sexual themes, that maybe part of genesis, "the fall," is really a holdover ancient tradition regarding the desert-ification of mesopotamia. there is the theme of going from garden (fertile crescent) to desert (like modern iraq).

Adam tries to lay off the blame anywhere he can. LOLBut it sure wasn't HIS fault. God put her there, she talked him into tasting it, the devil made them do it, but Adam? Adam was just standing under the tree minding his own business.

women are portrayed as objects typically in genesis. and when they're not, they're evil.but genesis actually balances this out by making the men stupid.

just like a man

no. they do that themselves

christ, you're even more sexist than crashfrog.

no no. i just hate everybody.

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Actually, some go back to before the priestly periods.

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J & E are not believed to have been written before the Temple, but during the Divided Kingdom. The J writer was from Judah and the E writer was from Israel.

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This is the authority I was speaking about.

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You're going to have to be more specific as to what authority you are talking about.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

But J&E were not creating new material. They were recording older oral tales and those tales form the basis for much of the OT.Let me try agin to explain what I'm refering to as Authority.Much of Genesis could be retitled "Tales of the Founding Fathers". It is a history of defining a people. The purpose was IMHO to legitimize and acknolwedge the there really was a people that were unique, different from those around them.This was as big an issue during the very early days long before the priests. Sitting among all of the Semetic people at the eastern end of the Med, there was some need to identify who was IN and who was out. These early tales were the means of identity, and acknowledged the members of the extended clan were unique. In the tales, that acknowledgement came from GOD's direct sanction.That is the Authority I was speaking about.If it's still not clear just tell me and I'll try again.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion