|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
Junior Member (Idle past 5545 days) Posts: 22 From: Two Rocks, Western Australia Joined: |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Do only advantageous mutations fuel evolution? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Darwinist Junior Member (Idle past 5545 days) Posts: 22 From: Two Rocks, Western Australia Joined: |
I would like to submit the above topic title for consideration, thanks.
Edited by Admin, : Change title.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Admin Director Posts: 13042 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
We usually only promote topics that are framed in the form of a debate, with a pro and a con. Please flesh out your topic proposal to make clear your position on the issue by editing your Message 1, then post a note here to let me know you're done and I'll take another look.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Darwinist Junior Member (Idle past 5545 days) Posts: 22 From: Two Rocks, Western Australia Joined: |
Admin, my question doesn`t really have any pro`s or con`s. I would just like to know what, if any, questions remains unanswered in regards to proving that evolution occurs. Hope this helps. Cheers.
Always wanting to hear other peoples opinions about God and evolution. Email me.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Admin Director Posts: 13042 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
Darwinist writes: I would just like to know what, if any, questions remains unanswered in regards to proving that evolution occurs. That's a different question than the one in your title. There are tons of unanswered questions concerning evolution, just as there are all across science. But the evidence long ago became sufficient for concluding that evolution occurs. Even before Darwin it had become obvious that evolution occurs. Lamarck proposed his "inheritance of acquired characteristics" theory to account for the observed evolution more than a half century before Darwin published Origin of Species. Perhaps you'd like to rephrase your question to something like, "What do scientists consider the conclusive evidence that evolution occurs?" And then you'll still need to state your position on the issue. This isn't a "Get your questions about evolution answered here" site. It's a debate site.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Darwinist Junior Member (Idle past 5545 days) Posts: 22 From: Two Rocks, Western Australia Joined: |
Admin, I would like to please change the title up for consideration to: Do both advantageous and neutral mutations fuel evolution? My position is that advantageous mutations alone could not fuel evolution.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Admin Director Posts: 13042 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
I'm not sure that's a good topic for debate because your position would encounter widespread agreement. Is there some reason you believe your position might spark debate?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Darwinist Junior Member (Idle past 5545 days) Posts: 22 From: Two Rocks, Western Australia Joined: |
I was under the impression that a lot of evolutionists believe that only advantageous mutations fuel evolution?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Admin Director Posts: 13042 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
This misunderstanding is worth discussing. I'll change the title and promote the thread.
--Percy
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Admin Director Posts: 13042 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
shalamabobbi Member (Idle past 2877 days) Posts: 397 Joined: |
Advantageous mutations have been demonstrated to exist. The fact that most are disadvantageous is a moot point as they die off leaving the status quo. Only the beneficial changes that are few and far between result in the dramatic changes to the landscape. This explains stretches of apparent stasis followed by rapid change. My understanding of it anyhow..
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 313 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Neutral and near-neutral mutations can also be fixed by genetic drift. So no.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Welcome to the fray Darwinist,
I was under the impression that a lot of evolutionists believe that only advantageous mutations fuel evolution? Mayr argues that neutral mutations are not evolution because they are not subject to selection. This is true to a point, however, because what neutral mutations due is provide a variety of platforms for later mutations to form that are beneficial. Can't find the source right now, but in one study on e.coli, over some 20 or 40 years, IIRC, starting from a single parent, with generations divided and some preserved for later analysis, they ended up with a beneficial mutation that was enabled by a prior neutral mutation: those without the neutral mutation did not evolve the beneficial one, those with did. This is logical: neutral mutations provide variety within the gene pool, and it is variety that is important when confronting new and different ecological challenges, to provide an opportunity to take advantage of the new or different systems. Enjoy. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 313 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Can't find the source right now, but in one study on e.coli, over some 20 or 40 years, IIRC, starting from a single parent, with generations divided and some preserved for later analysis, they ended up with a beneficial mutation that was enabled by a prior neutral mutation: those without the neutral mutation did not evolve the beneficial one, those with did. You're thinking of this. But I don't know if it's been determined yet that the original mutation (~ 20,000 generations) was neutral, just that it didn't allow metabolization of citrate. Research continues ...
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Wounded King Member Posts: 4149 From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Joined: |
I think there is a valuable distinction to be drawn between evolution in terms of the pattern of genetic change in a population and adaptive evolution in which the prevalence of certain phenotypic traits in a population change due to environmental/selective pressures.
I think this is the distinction Mayr draws that RAZD referred to. It is also worth noting that as well as providing a foundational basis for further beneficial variation a mutation which is neutral, or even deleterious, in one environment may be beneficial in another. TTFN, WK
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Darwinist Junior Member (Idle past 5545 days) Posts: 22 From: Two Rocks, Western Australia Joined: |
But how then, if a mutation is beneficial in one environment, but deleterious in another, do we define exactly what an advantageous mutation is?
Always wanting to hear other peoples opinions about God and evolution. Email me.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024