Presidential Debates

Whatever, why don't you mind the fact that Bush fixed it so you pay more personal income taxes, while the richest Americans pay less taxes?Did you just want the richest Americans to be more rich, and for you to have less money?

I posted this on another board:

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... the evidence so compelling that (1) it is foolish to vote for bush and (2) many people appear willing to do that.when it comes to bush policies:are you fooled by his economic patter? (what corner?)are you fooled by his faith? (only in public?)are you fooled by his reasons for going into Iraq? (what WMD?)are you fooled by his tax give-away? (what benefit?)are you fooled by his war on terror? (could they really prevent a repeat occurance?)are you fooled by his pursuit of Osama? (where is he anyway?)are you fooled by his words on Iraq? (are we winning ... or losing?)are you fooled by his ANG "service"? (what records?)are you fooled by his "no child let ahead? (what funding?)and on and onI have yet to see/hear of a single reason to vote for bushother than "stay the course"and staying the course is a disaster.everyone that voted for bush in 2000 should be saying "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me"

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When the goal is to get from London to New York "staying the course" at full speed through a foggy sea filled with icebergs is a TITANIC mistake.enjoy

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

Question for Schraf: Do the poor and middle income taxpayers pay more, the same, or less taxes after Bush tax cuts than they paid before the Bush tax cuts?

I'm all ears. Tell me about his faith relative to his private life in order that I may not be fooled.

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The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buz

Kerry is the reason to vote for Bush, what does Kerry base as his qualifications, surely not his senate career(Doesn't even show up for senate duties), but his serving in Vietnam, surely you realize the Vets are outraged, its because they realize Kerry violated the fourteen amendment, and is applying for commander an chief.P.S. Kerry says he believes in the sanctity of the unborn baby, yet votes to murder the child, as a lawyer he knows full well that the constitution does not give more right to the baby than the mother, surely you yourself don't feel the unborn baby has no rights, etc...You must have a television, and seen the Bush adds documenting Kerry flip flopping (personally the Vets are only holding Kerry accountable, yet Kerry still refuses to release all his complete medical/military records (Why), shouldn't we look at Mr. Kerrys large FBI file too(lets find the dirt now before its too late), if you desire to pay greater taxes, cause things that sound good, cost, you can not have it both ways, there simply is not enough money to go around, what needs to be done is to generate jobs(put people back to work), and that will only come about by stimulating the economy, this means oil, coal, not going down the path Kerry will lead(taxing oil, coal), binding industry to increasingly complex environmental laws, that will destroy the economy(complex environmental laws will only cause industry to flee to Mexico, China, where they will pollute at will(surely you realize the jobs that Clinton sent to China, are now drawing oil from the middle east, its simply not fair for them to pollute while our economy is stifled by a Kerry plan(like do you really believe in global warming, etc...), what you should be pursuing is fair trade, the industries fled because Democrats encouraged then to flee, now you need damage control, protect the industries left, and generate fair trade, in the free trade treaties, the republicans goal, etc..., and without a strong economy how will you pay the debt, we need jobs, not more red tape for a national health plan(our taxes will only increase)(and the debt will only increase under a Kerry plan), we need to make the small buisness able to afford to purchase affordable health plans, but not by making the government the middle man, can not afford the government cadillac that Kerry will pursue, the democratic party simply seem to be living in a tax the middle class world, they simply is not enough money to pursue Kerry's agenda's, he is simply lying to say it will not affect the middle class, etc...Why is the stock market not crashing, is not the price of crude 50 dollars a barrel, surly you realize Kerry's plan will crash the market, peoples IRA's because of Kerrys problems with the environment, though feel it quite ironic that the people responsible for the deaths of the people in the twin towers were the environmentalists, granted Bin Laden and company crashed into the towers but the environmentalists knowing the towers would collapse in a fire, they still refused to use safe spray asphestos insulation above the 64 floor, etc.. Kerry is simply the wrong man for the job, you don't want an environmentalist in control when your trying to stimulate jobs, what Kerry will do is raise taxes, because thats all a democrat knows, the republicans realize you need to create jobs, its a fundemental difference, and the reason to vote strickly republican.P.S. I realize democrats believe in pouring water in the california desert to grow oranges, pushing for environmental laws, so no power plants can afford to build in california, pour milk on the ground, filibuster drilling for oil in our country, and fight coal based power plants, etc...Truly the democrats are not even environmentalists, because they are the ones responsible for other countries are picking up the jobs the democrats have left packing, and polluting more, and to make it sound good they say the republicans were only trying to make money, well too me these industries could care less, they are making more money in Mexico, so why should they care about complex environmental laws, when they can make more money polluting more in Mexico, etc...This message has been edited by whatever, 10-02-2004 08:39 PM

you tell me: all I see are public demonstrations -- what are the other basics of faith that would demonstrate real faith?anyone can appear to be faithful, anyone can put on the clothes.the question is whether you are fooled by the demonstration or have done the work to see that it is real and not shinola.enjoy.(and you know I cannot prove a negative -- you (and bush) can prove a positive ... if it exists)beware of the wrapper on the book?

Again you prove my point. It is so consistant that I just have to laugh every time it happens.when you say "Kerry is the reason to vote for Bush" you are admiting that there is NO reason to vote FOR bush - NONE ZERO NADA ZILCH RIENthere is no reason to vote FOR bush because there is nothing there to vote FOR.This after being president for 4 years? that is so pathetic it doesn't even amount to floor sweepings.There is no there there.laughing to the bank on this one.thanks

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

Razd, Actually GWB has proven himself, Kerry has not proven himself after 20 years in the Senate. Vote for the man thats walking the talk, not talking the talk, surly you realize Kerry is all talk, if he was capable of walking the talk, his voting record would line up with what he speaks, it doesn't and if for no other reason you can not vote for the man.P.S. If someone lies to you, would you trust them, this in essense what Kerry does over and over, saying he will not tax the middle class, yet votes to raise gasoline tax, and middle class taxes, doesn't line up with works, and his word, but if you want to vote for a man whose word is not good, then Kerry is your man.

I know relatively little about the man's private life, but I'm not the one implicating that people are being fooled by his spiritual private life. As with the case of Clinton, things in private life that are disrespectful to the high office he held and his immoral private life eventually surface. So far, Bush's public testimony of faith in Christ seems to be quite consistent with his conduct as a respectful president as well as a person of high morals.I would imagine his political counterparts are studying his private life very closely so as to bring to surface any inconsistencies with his professed faith. Wouldn't you?

You are correct: bush has proven himself.He has proven he is a coward when it comes to fighting in a war or standing for his convictions.He has proven that he is no leader when it comes to America being attackedHe has proven he is clueless when it comes to Iraq from beginning to endHe has proven he is incomptent at getting his programs (like privatizing Social Security) through congress even when he has republican control of the House the Senate and the Supreme CourtHe has proven he is incapable of balancing the budget even when given a surplus on a platterHe has proven that he is corrupt to the point of raiding the treasury to pay out big bucks to his backers while sending soldiers into battle without sufficient protectionHe has proven that he cannot comprehend anything needing more than a simple solutionHe has proven that he needs a script to operate from (and that he is not the author of the scripts)He has proven that he cannot distinguish truth from falsehood when it comes to speaking the truthHe has proven that does not have anything more for this term than he had last term and that he has no results from last term to campaign on: 0 plus 0 is still 0.He has proven that there is no reason to vote FOR bush.You can keep spouting those bush lies all you want -- it does not give them any more validity than they had coming from bush's lying lips.I'd say buy a clue, but I know you too well for that.Enjoy.

Care to tell me what Clinton is running for? Why is it whenever somebody says bush is bad the sycophants haul out the "Clinton Card"? Lets talk about Nixon if you want to discuss corruption in office eh? or Reagan? (how many CONVICTED?)The question about being fooled by any action is whether you take it at face value without checking it for actual factual behavior to back up the claim.For instance, I can look at Jimmy Carter and what he has done and see that he is a man that bases his behavior on his faith. I cannot see that from Bush, and so my conclusion is that it is a facade, a fraud, a fake.I also understand that I cannot prove a negative, so I just have my opinion -- and that it can be countered by actual factual evidence to the positive: where is it?Let's just say that there is a large history of shyster preachers in this country, and I am jaundiced enough to want something more than pat assurances of faith.I'll also say that it wouldn't be an issue for me if he didn't make such a big play about it every chance he can for political gain ...but then the king of the circus tents did say it best: there is a sucker born every minute ...enjoy.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

Well, he certainly doesn't read his Bible. Remember a few months back, in that interview, he was asked how he reconciles his Christianity and his position on the death penalty?His reply was that he didn't think Jesus ever spoke about the death penalty in the Bible.Now, you can argue both ways about the Bible's position on the death penalty, but to argue that it never even comes up? Ludicrous. I'm no scholar, but even I can think of a number of Bible passages that clearly speak to the validity of punishment by death.

Maybe he knows it better than you, CF. Can you cite anywhere in the NT where Jesus talked about the death penalty?

Maybe "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone?"

Razd, What needs to be done is to vote more Republican Senators, so we can get an energy policy, Mr. Kerry filibustered drilling for oil in Alaska, do you like the high price of gasoline, if not, then vote for the Republican party, so the democrats are not able to abuse filibuster powers, so we can have an energy policy, etc...GWB has got the economy moving in the right direction, the stock market has not crashed in spite of all this terrorism, no reason to change horses that would attack the economy rather than lift it up, if you value jobs you really have no choice but to vote for the republican party, bringing fairness to the people, tax breaks, pressing forward to job insourcing, job creation, etc...GWB is truly doing a remarkable job, the stock market showing the economy is actually quite strong in spite of high price of crude, which is important cause of all the IRA's peoples retirements that would be threatened by a Kerry administration, the priviatization of social security is a step in the right direction, but realize under a Kerry administration, it would be not in their agenda for the people to be empowered to be able to have their own control of their retirement moneys, for health insurance to be transferable between employers, retirement money's transferable, this it the problem with the democratic party they want to cut all the strings to the people taking an active part in the process, though I can understand you likely want to emulate Mr. Kerry who gets paid for time not present, but if you would be fair to the people that actually work for a living, you realize the answers lie in the people playing a active role, and not the democratic party controlling the purse strings, but empowering the stings to the people so they will but have something at the end of their lives, that they can call their own, etc...P.S. The democratic party is responsible for much of what ails this great country, truly its time to vote them out of office, Mr. Kerry himself is breaking federal law in recieving a senate salary for time not present, how can you want to be party with someone that taking this money under the table so to speak, does this not set a standard that its ok to break the laws of the land, if the law is not to be upheld, then why have the law on the books, Kerry being a lawyer knows he is willfully breaking federal law (He doesn't need the money, its a spiteful disregard of honoring the laws of the land), should be all the more reason for you to vote for GWB, etc...