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Author Topic:   The black hole at the center of the Universe.
Iblis
Member (Idle past 3924 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 46 of 305 (699814)
05-25-2013 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Peter Lamont
05-25-2013 6:15 PM


Re: Context
Describe an "inward expansion" of a finite spacetime. How would it differ from, a contraction? Why would things appear to be moving farther apart rather than, closer together. Why would there be red-shift rather than, blue-shift?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Peter Lamont, posted 05-25-2013 6:15 PM Peter Lamont has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Peter Lamont, posted 05-27-2013 6:15 PM Iblis has not replied

  
Peter Lamont
Member (Idle past 3971 days)
Posts: 147
Joined: 09-11-2012


Message 47 of 305 (699815)
05-25-2013 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Taq
05-23-2013 5:22 PM


Re: Uhh ... Well ...
Taq, look, I don't know what is at the barycenter of the Universe - what I do know is that if there was nothing there, our rate of acceleration would decline. This does noty seem to be the case - and that spells Black Hole.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Taq, posted 05-23-2013 5:22 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
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Peter Lamont
Member (Idle past 3971 days)
Posts: 147
Joined: 09-11-2012


Message 48 of 305 (699816)
05-25-2013 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by JonF
05-24-2013 7:53 AM


John F, I dfon't want to talk about 'average density' in this thread. What interests me far more is whether you believe the expansion started slowly or fast. It had to be one or the other.

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Peter Lamont
Member (Idle past 3971 days)
Posts: 147
Joined: 09-11-2012


Message 49 of 305 (699817)
05-25-2013 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Taq
05-24-2013 10:48 AM


Re: Uhh ... Well ...
I don't put much faith in your picture of the expansion. There is no evidence of any 'slowing down' of the expansion. I thought I had demonstrated clearly that we are going in, in my 'Observational Evidence'. Why won't you read it?

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 Message 39 by Taq, posted 05-24-2013 10:48 AM Taq has not replied

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Iblis
Member (Idle past 3924 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 50 of 305 (699819)
05-25-2013 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Peter Lamont
05-25-2013 6:15 PM


Re: Context
Peter Lamont writes:
Please read my 'Observational Evidence' and let me know what you think of it.
Yeah you have noticed that we live in a black hole that has been turned inside out. That's what "Big Bang" means
From "How big"

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Iblis
Member (Idle past 3924 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 51 of 305 (699820)
05-25-2013 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Peter Lamont
05-25-2013 6:41 PM


Re: Uhh ... Well ...
Describe an "inward expansion" of a finite spacetime. How would it differ from, a contraction? Why would things appear to be moving farther apart rather than, closer together. Why would there be red-shift rather than, blue-shift?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Peter Lamont, posted 05-25-2013 6:41 PM Peter Lamont has not replied

  
Peter Lamont
Member (Idle past 3971 days)
Posts: 147
Joined: 09-11-2012


Message 52 of 305 (699821)
05-25-2013 6:50 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Iblis
05-25-2013 6:11 PM


Re: The black hole at the center of your argument
Iblis, of course Gravity would would cause the Universe's Outward Expansion to slow down and stop.
The reason we're speeding up is because we're going in, not because of any fabricated force.
They fabricated Dark Energy. It doesn't exist. If you're so sure it does, show me some.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Iblis, posted 05-25-2013 6:11 PM Iblis has replied

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 Message 54 by Iblis, posted 05-25-2013 7:19 PM Peter Lamont has replied

  
Peter Lamont
Member (Idle past 3971 days)
Posts: 147
Joined: 09-11-2012


Message 53 of 305 (699823)
05-25-2013 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by JonF
05-25-2013 9:13 AM


Re: Uhh ... Well ...
Okay, John F, I don't want to discuss 'average density' here. Did you read my 'Observational Evidence' ? I wish you would. You still haven't told me, do you think the expansion started slowly, or fast?
Nobody can see beyond the Observable Universe, cann we agree on that?

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Iblis
Member (Idle past 3924 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 54 of 305 (699824)
05-25-2013 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Peter Lamont
05-25-2013 6:50 PM


Re: The black hole at the center of your argument
Peter Lamont writes:
They fabricated Dark Energy. It doesn't exist. If you're so sure it does, show me some.
Are you under the impression I "believe" things? Not So.
Dark Energy is the current working explanation for accelerated expansion. Guth's Inflation model allows for it, allows for anti-gravity, allows forsomething out of nothing. To replace the dark energy model, simply provide somefhing coherent that covers all the same facts it does and solves more. Current best contender for this job is M-theory.
Describe an "inward expansion" of a finite spacetime. How would it differ from, a contraction? Why would things appear to be moving farther apart rather than, closer together. Why would there be red-shift rather than, blue-shift?
Edited by Iblis, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Peter Lamont, posted 05-25-2013 6:50 PM Peter Lamont has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Peter Lamont, posted 05-28-2013 6:02 PM Iblis has replied

  
Peter Lamont
Member (Idle past 3971 days)
Posts: 147
Joined: 09-11-2012


Message 55 of 305 (699882)
05-27-2013 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Iblis
05-25-2013 6:18 PM


Re: Context
Iblis, in my "Observational Evidence,' I describe an ongoing force not an force with a 'finite spacetime.'
I assume you know that Acceleration leads to Loss of Pressure (same thing as expansion) and that's why an airplane flies. You see, air going over the aerofoil has to go further than air going under the wing - in the same amount of time. The air going over the aerofoil has to accelerate, causing a low pressure above the wing.
We're going in, and it's a black hole, then we're going to accelerate and that's going to lead to expansion. I have pretty well shown that we are going 'in' in my 'Observational Evidence.'

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JonF
Member (Idle past 197 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 56 of 305 (699883)
05-27-2013 7:23 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Peter Lamont
05-27-2013 6:15 PM


Re: Context
I assume you know that Acceleration leads to Loss of Pressure (same thing as expansion) and that's why an airplane flies. You see, air going over the aerofoil has to go further than air going under the wing - in the same amount of time. The air going over the aerofoil has to accelerate, causing a low pressure above the wing.
Commonly held but incorrect.
Clearer than the rest of your incoherent ramblings, though. That's an improvement.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Peter Lamont, posted 05-27-2013 6:15 PM Peter Lamont has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Peter Lamont, posted 05-28-2013 6:21 PM JonF has replied

  
Peter Lamont
Member (Idle past 3971 days)
Posts: 147
Joined: 09-11-2012


Message 57 of 305 (699886)
05-27-2013 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Iblis
05-25-2013 6:44 PM


Re: Context
I have heard the 'Big-Bang' was an exploding blackn hole, except there is no record of any exploding black hole. No, the Big-Bang is too fantastic. 'Poof,' instant Universe - just like in the bible! Sorry.
The whole problem started with a Belgian cleric, who heard the Observable Universe was expanding, and this Belgian cleric, LeMaitre took this information and just assumed that if the Observable Universe was expandng then the entire Universe had to be doing the same, something entirely without evidence.
Nobody can see beyond the Observable Universe, and anybody who says he can - is pretending.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Percy, posted 05-28-2013 12:51 PM Peter Lamont has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 58 of 305 (699916)
05-28-2013 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Peter Lamont
05-25-2013 6:01 PM


I think the expansion happened only slowly at first, and has since accelerated. Now, what do you think of that?
I think this does not explain the observations. The observations are consistent with a much larger universe just 300,000 years (when the CMB was produced) after the singularity first started expanding. This requires a much faster expansion rate than what we see now. Your claims appear to be contradicted by the facts.

This message is a reply to:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 59 of 305 (699918)
05-28-2013 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Peter Lamont
05-25-2013 6:23 PM


Re: Uhh ... Well ...
Taq, look, I don't know what is at the barycenter of the Universe - what I do know is that if there was nothing there, our rate of acceleration would decline.
Based on what evidence?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Peter Lamont, posted 05-25-2013 6:23 PM Peter Lamont has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 60 of 305 (699923)
05-28-2013 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Peter Lamont
05-21-2013 8:29 PM


No, the expansion started only slowly and has since accelerated, in the manner of any Inward Expansion.
Inward Expansion? Don't you mean contraction?
If you were right, then we'd have a lot of blue-shifted galaxies speeding towards us. But we don't, they're all red-shifted because they're moving away from us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Peter Lamont, posted 05-21-2013 8:29 PM Peter Lamont has replied

Replies to this message:
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