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Author | Topic: Religion in Government | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
DBlevins Member (Idle past 3805 days) Posts: 652 From: Puyallup, WA. Joined: |
custard writes: Part of being in a democracy is that you have to suffer the will of the majority. If the will of the majority creates laws based on religious beliefs - abortion restriction, controlled substances, tax exemptions for religious institutions, then I don't see how one can avoid the influence of religion. Fortunately, democracies have laws in place to protect minorities from unjust rules by the majority. Democratic laws and institutions protect the freedoms and rights of all individual citizens.
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DBlevins Member (Idle past 3805 days) Posts: 652 From: Puyallup, WA. Joined: |
custard writes: This type of thing seems to bolster the argument our govt was established in the name of Christianity as well as freedom. The argument that the United States was established in the name of Christianity is complete hogwash.
quote:-- John Adams Adams also signed the Treaty of Tripoli under which article 11 states "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." The following from No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.nobeliefs.com/jefferson.htmquote: quote: {Edited to add URL} This message has been edited by DBlevins, 05-29-2004 05:50 PM
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
...They meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.
Wow! I really do need to read more! I was always under the impression that the First Amendment was intended to protect the rights of the different Christian denominations. Thanks, DBlevins.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 445 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Now you are just making stuff up.
The constitution was written way after the first landing of which I speak of. It was then that they placed a cross on the sand, and said a prayer to God, proclaiming this land in his name. The constitution was written by Christians with God in their hearts, who were smart enough to not include church and state together. They didn't need to write anything about God, because we have the Bible which explains that. Here is a web-site with some truths about God and our founders.Angelfire - error 404 Here is a picture of the first landing site with the cross still there, now in stone.Angelfire - error 404 Here, some more stuff you probably won't read:CBN.com - The Christian Broadcasting Network
Incorrect. It is because the founding fathers knew the perils of having religion and government intertwined that they specifically and deliberately wrote the Constitution to separate the two.
Not true, it was their believe that brought about the whole thing to begin with. The separation of church and state is not to be confused with God and state. Everywhere you look it is written: ONE NATION UNDER GOD. I wonder why?
Did you not "not believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn" until you were just told about here? You seem to think that atheists go around constantly ranting, "There is no god! There is no god!" The thing about atheism is that you really don't think about it. What is the point of wasting time cogitating over something that doesn't exist?
That has nothing to do with this thread, keep your thoughts on the subject at hand, and try not to get so emotional. For the last time, do not put words in my mouth, it dis-respects me, and makes you look foolish.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 445 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Are you sure of that? If so, can you provide some idea of when and where this happened?
What was it they were running from? Looking for? Yes they were smart to separate religion from state. But not God.In God we trust.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
First, the Virginia Colonies were not settled for religious freedom, no matter what that site says. They were a commercial venture from beginning to end. As usual, he tries to combine to seperate incidents, the earlier Virginia Settlements which were commercial ventures with the Pilgrim landings much later and further north.
And as to the Mayflower, the Pilgrims were some of the most intolerant, untrustworthy, bigotted people ever to hit our shores. You might just want to check and investigate King Philip's War and the destruction that the Pilgrims brought to the Wampanoag. But NONE of the Virgina or New England settlements were intended to found America. Nor were they the first settlement in North America. The Spanish had colonized Florida and even moved up into what is today Texas, Arizona and New Mexico before the first English settler set foot on the shore of the James. You really need to do some research one your own. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
was first added to the US Coins around the Civil War. It was not in general us as a motto before than and certainly not as a motto by the founding fathers.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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NosyNed Member Posts: 9004 From: Canada Joined: |
Please reread your post 35.
You quoted a question. You then made statments that had nothing to do with it. It has been suggested that you will be recieved better if you are able to write with only the normal number of errors and typos. I suggest that if you want to debate at all you will have to be able to read as well.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
quote:It is a common myth here in the U.S. that the Pilgrims (those Puritans who settled in New England, starting with the Mayflower) came to this continent for practice relgious freedom. Actually, they left England because they wanted the right to practice religious intolerance. It is interesting that early Massachusetts had very strict laws against what it considered deviant sects. One Quaker, Mary Dyer, was even hanged because she refused to be banished.
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custard Inactive Member |
custard writes: This type of thing seems to bolster the argument our govt was established in the name of Christianity as well as freedom. DBlevins write:The argument that the United States was established in the name of Christianity is complete hogwash. Yes, my statement is erroneous. Keep reading my posts though, I think you'll see what I was trying to say:
This message has been edited by custard, 05-29-2004 09:11 PM
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custard Inactive Member |
Well actually America was first founded by a man who goes by the name of Amerigo Vespucci. America again was founded by a man named Christopher Columbus in 1492. Dude, need to hit the history book a bit harder, or simply go back and read the links you posted. Sailing to, and writing about 'the Americas;' and discovering the West Indies are not germaine to this the influence of religion in US govt. This message has been edited by custard, 05-31-2004 04:18 AM
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
riVeRraT writes:
quote: Then why do you have a constitutional right to worship some other god? Isn't one of your god's commandments that "Thou shalt have no other gods before me"? Isn't that the first commandment? How can the constitution be written in the spirit of god if it violates the very first commandment of god?
quote: They most certainly did! You really haven't thought this through, have you? There was a huge debate right from the Declaration of Independence through to the Constitution about what to do regarding slavery. They're talking about freedom and yet enslaving.
quote: (*blink!*) You did not just say that. You really have no idea what slavery is, do you? Rrhain WWJD? JWRTFM!
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
schrafinator writes:
quote: Sorta. The Constitution can be amended by popularly elected individuals. It's not a direct line, but it is there. If enough people want to revoke the First Amendment, then it will be revoked. Rrhain WWJD? JWRTFM!
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JCPalmer Inactive Member |
riVeRraT writes:
No that is fact.
Now you are just making stuff up. riVeRraT writes:
If its not written down, it'ts not fact. Also they may have had 'God in their hearts' but the point of comming to the Americas was for freedom of many different things. The constitution was written by Christians with God in their hearts, who were smart enough to not include church and state together. They didn't need to write anything about God, because we have the Bible which explains that. riVeRrat as for your research, I'm not so sure if I buy a website with information where the copyright/work cited is followed by links to more Angelfire links (free personal web servers) and this 'Return to Bro. Terry's Home Page!' Check out wikipedia, and then get back to me.
custard writes:
Meaning no disrespect, I have followed your opinion on this topic and have felt it has been very accurate and resourceful, however, I would have imagined you would have figured the meaning of my post. The point I was trying to convey was it does not matter who found America, and what they said, the cold hard facts are in the Constitution. Dude, need to hit the history book a bit harder, or simply go back and read the links you posted. Sailing to, and writing about 'the Americas;' and discovering the West Indies are not germaine to this the influence of religion in US govt. more to add I'm in a hurry so I leave this as is. I will add more in a few hours.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Well, at least it's made as difficult as possible. While Congress can vote an Amendment, it then has to be ratified by two thirds of the states.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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