The Creation/Evolution dividing line

Hi NoseyNed,I would like to suggest a focus for this topic: the leap from non-breast-feeding to breast-feeding. It is a level of change that is clear.Using the mammilian attribute of breast-feeding as the defining difference for this discussion, I ass/u/me for the moment that the first mammal would have as an "ancestor" a reptile, a bird, or some other animal without breasts.Infant mammals are notoriously unable to fend for themselves. Additionally, they require breast milk for a significant period (by significant I mean long enough that they will die without getting it and there are very few substitutes).Infant birds and snakes generally feed on insects.I would be interesed in an explanation of how this "kind" change would succeed?Thanks,
BAE

Hi Coragyphs,To quote JAR "Okay, maybe we are finally getting somewhere."The list you gave me were all mammals, were they not? Thank you. You seem to have stayed with my proposal of focusing only on the nursing aspect of mammals for which I thank you.I assume that you agree that evolutionary changes happen near the point of conception; that the physical charasterics of a birthed animal do not change. In other words and using a simple example, a male amphibian, bird, reptile, or some other "kind" of non-mammal fertilized one or more eggs of a female of the same kind and normally an animal of the same kind would have been the offspring. When the material within the egg that determines what the offspring will "look" like is disturbed then an unexpected (different) offspring results.Now, focus on that very moment when the "non-mammal ancestor" is expecting to feed it's offspring with insects or expecting them to take care of themselves. In the "nest" is one helpless mammal offspring which must nurse to survive. The "non-mammal ancestor" has no way to feed the mammal offspring and the mammal offspring can not take care of itself. What do you predict the result will be?Just out of interest, what non-mammal is the proposed "evolutionary non-mammal ancestor" of all the mammals you listed?Very best regards,
BAE

Hi NosyNed,As you will see in my posting, I am not asking about breasts but about nursing. I am not asking about the gradual change from one structure to another for the purpose of feeding an offspring. I am asking about the leap from no structure from which an offspring can obtain milk to an offspring which must have milk to survive.I know from working with you in other topics that you can express scientifically what I ask in a probably confusing way so would you please help by providing a more clearly worded question or example if this round of my postings does not clarify my question?Thanks,
BAE

The meaning of "...can obtain milk but does not need it..." is not clear. I will assume for this post that you mean that the mother produces milk but the offspring does not require it to survive.That would make the mother a mammal (a scientific definition) and the offspring a reptile (based on your associated post). I thought tToE proposed the opposite.A related aside; your post on yeast and superoxygen was quite clear. Possibly, you can provide a similar-quality description of the many steps required to transform from a reptile to mammal - again, just the nursing part. Please stay scientific which requires that the description not promote the idea of a reptile which produces milk or a mammal which does not require milk. Unless, of course, you can provide scientific examples of either.

Please show me an infant mammal which does not require milk which is offspring of a female mammal which produces milk. Then I will understand.I believe that you believe that your one-liner is a detailed response. And on similar one-liners is all of tToE built. "And then a miracle happens."In fact, not you nor anyone else can give a detailed response to my request because actually going through all the steps would show the fallacy of evolution and reduce tToE to the non-science it is. Describing each of the required "thousands of changes over millions of years" would take at least a large chapter if not several volumes.