Women's Reactions to Rape

Learning self-defense, or training in weapon use, is a great way not to feel weak. It's very empowering.

Don't you think that, were it possible to tell, women would have worked out ways to do so by now? Rather than being so spectacularly wrong as to who the rapists are going to be?Are you telling me that it's only been the last couple of years that women have decided to respond to the reality of rape, even though men have been raping women for all of recorded civilization?I think we can pretty safely say that there's no way to distinguish rapists from non-rapists until it's too late.

I don't understand what any of this has to do with anything currently under discussion. But I haven't seen it.Oh, I get it. Because you can't support your statement, I must be a liar. I guess you haven't actually read the thread. Almost nobody has agreed with this general case. The most strenuous objectors have been women, themselves. The purpose of this thread, in fact, was to explore exactly why the position you've erroneously described as "generally supported", in fact, isn't. I've never made this claim. Did you understand, then, what I've been asking in my last 2 posts to you? I guess not. I don't understand why that's a basis for objection, since I'm not making those arguments or defending those positions.

But that's not the topic of discussion. Well, you might be an idiot, I guess. If name-calling is the best you have, then you're the second person in this thread I simply won't be able to communicate with. Then please, read it. Now you seem to have reversed your position. Which is it? Have people been agreeing with the proposition, or have they been following your tack and calling me a mysogynist who wants to blame the victim? If you had read the thread, you wouldn't be so unsure.

It's actually fairly simple. Self-defense tactics work in rape situations. So why is the idea of self-defense so roundly dismissed by the very people who could stand to benefit most? You don't need to view anybody as anything to be prepared to defend yourself from an attacker. Self-defense training prepares you to respond to threats when they arise. If what you say is true, martial artists would be the most paranoid people imaginable, but quite the opposite is true. They're usually, in my experience, gregarious and outgoing, because of the confidence afforded by the knowledge they can respond to threats. No, I think you've summarized it quite nicely. Well done.

Well, let's put it this way. If a Nazi says that he likes coffee, does that mean that Jews have to drink tea?It may be that my argument is superficially reminiscent of the arguments you're referring to; the arguments that are a wedge for the transfer of blame to the victim.But that's not the purpose or thrust of my argument; and the validity of that argument is in no way related to the similarity it might bear to someone else's argument. I believe that it's a valid argument in and of itself, and that it can be advanced without shifting blame to any victims or implicating women in some kind of "failure" to prevent rape. As I've said before, it is the community of men who have failed, spectacularly. I think its ridiculous and arrogant to expect the community of women to give us another go at it.There's an Arab proverb: "Trust God, but tie up your camel." Obviously, it's a crime and not your fault if someone walks up and steals your camel. But why would a person think that the best strategy for camel-theft-prevention is to simply hope it doesn't happen?

Maybe what it comes down to is this: Is it possible to reccommend a course of action without simultaneously condemning those who don't follow it?I believe that you can. Apparently many here don't agree.This message has been edited by crashfrog, 11-29-2004 02:52 PM

Based on what evidence? It's never been my experience that learning to protect yourself stimulates distrust of other people. Quite the opposite, in fact - people who can protect themselves find that they're less afraid to trust others, because they know they can handle the associated risks. I'm sorry but I don't accept this conclusion as self-evident, and I've seen no evidence that supports it.