Did They Write About Jesus in the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms?

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Personally, I find it much more useful to defend the Bible rather than to attack it, but valid critiques are OK as long as it is understood that the text is impartial.

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I find it interesting that you consider me to be attacking the Bible.From my perspective I feel I am actually defending what is actually (as close as possible anyway) written by the authors.If Christian doctrines make a claim and neither the OT or NT support it, how is that attacking the Bible?If the NT writers made a claim concerning the OT and the OT doesn't support it, how is that attacking the Bible?You feel these ancient authors are exempt from supporting their statements?

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Tell me who God is.

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God is the source of my spiritual energy and personal power.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

OK...very well..1 John 4:1-3-- Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.I am not entirely convinced that the God you claim to have as your source is the God that I have. Just to be sure, who do YOU say that Jesus Christ is? This message has been edited by Phatboy, 04-23-2005 10:01 AM

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Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,

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Jesus is flesh.John the Elder, who wrote the Epistles of John, was telling Christians who didn't believe that Jesus was flesh, that they were wrong.Since it was written over 70 years after the fact, neither side could truly prove their side was any more right than the other.

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I am not entirely convinced that the God you claim to have as your source is the God that I have.

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And you won't ever be entirely convinced unless of course we agree.I can answer all your questions and some answers you will like and others you won't, but as long as God is a personal experience you have no way to determine if it is the same God, a true God, or a false God.All you can do is assume that if we agree, it is the same God and if we disagree, one or both are false.Birds of a feather flock together.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

You still haven't shown me where God shows his people that one-line prophecies are to be pulled out and used at a later date and are not a functioning part of the prophecy at the time it was spoken.Per your Message 109

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But the Isaiah prophecy didn't have a present tense fulfillment at all. there was no child in Ahaz' time that was given as a sign to him. The sign was only a messianic prophecy.

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If we remove verse 7:14, the prophecy makes no sense for Ahaz.Also verse 7:14 by itself is also an incomplete prophecy. It doesn't include who the sign is for or what the sign is a sign of.Stick with this prophecy and explain how God shows that the verses of this prophecy were to be understood separately and were for different centuries.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

I will additionally point out that the word Almah is the word for 'young maiden', and Isaiah, in Isaiah 8:4 identified her as the 'prophetess', and identified the child as his son in Isaiah 8:18.

Faith has been shown, by Arach I believe, that "almah" doesn't mean virgin. Faith disagrees of course.That's why I brought up the "two virgin births" scenerio.Christians speak of double fulfillment. But if they claim that the word "almah" means virgin for Jesus, then it has to mean virgin for the son of Isaiah. That would result in two virgin births, right?Faith holds that "almah" means virgin, but says that the verse doesn't apply at all to the time of Ahaz.So I'm patiently waiting for Faith to show me how this particular prophecy makes any sense when disassembled.

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"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

Like many people, faith doesn't look at the phrase in context. You can come up with anything you want if you keep doing that.

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The Messiah will be a prophet like Moses Deuteronomy 18:15-19 Acts 3:22,23

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Really? Let us see, shall we:Faith has suppress the context to pull wool over our eyes anddid not post Deut 18:15-20. Faith concealed Deut 18:20, because, Deuteronomy

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But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. This is why Jesus was killed or died, for being false prophet.
Bible has further echoed something similar as we read in Deuteronomy 13:1-5!

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If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,

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And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;

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Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

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Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

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And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

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Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are not the gods whom the Israelites knew; since they belonged to the category of ‘other gods.’ Whereas according to the Christians, Jesus invited the people of Israel to go after such other gods. A man-god or god-man who could be persecuted was also not known to the Israelites.

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The fact is that both (Christians & Jews) believe that Jesus was put to death and his signs and miracles availed him not; as the Bible (Torah) tells us that ONLY the false prophet will be met with such fate.

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We further read in Deuteronomy:

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And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,

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"An uninformed person cannot conceptualize the essence of knowledge nor its sublimity. One who fails to conceptualize something, its significance will never become rooted in the heart."

i believe i already noted that fact. and the second deuteronomical prophesy is directly followed by a book called "joshua." i wonder to whom it refered? my first reaction to this was "hey now!" my second was "wait, no that's right." and my third was "actually, no it's not."see, jesus didn't run around saying "god said.... etc!" he quote the bible a lot. and told people that god loves them. but that's about it. and he certainly spoke in the name of the right god. as i recall, one account has him almost getting stone for using his name. definitally the right god.oh, and for the love of yahweh, allah, jehovah, buddha, vishnu, ba'al, or whoever you believe in, please stop the colors!This message has been edited by Arachnophilia, 04-25-2005 11:42 PM

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אָרַח

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Great kings will pay homage and tribute to the Messiah Psalm 72:10,11 Matthew 2:1-11

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Which king paid the homage to Jesus?

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The Messiah will be a descendant of David Psalm 132:11 and Jeremiah 23:5,6; 33:15,16 Luke 1:32,33

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Hogwash, let us have a reality check: According the biblical books of Ezra and Nehemiah, those who returned from Babylonia were led by two men named Sheshbazzar and Zerubbabel. Both of these men were from the royal house of David. They were descendants of King Jehoiachin. Zerubbabel is also mentioned in the biblical books of the prophets Haggai and Zechariah, who prophesied in this period. But Sheshbazzar and Zerubbabel cease to be mentioned after the fifth chapter of Ezra. There is no report of the disappearance of these men, no explanation of what happened to the royal family. Rather, as with the ark, the monarchy simply ceases to be mentioned. Neither the biblical nor the archeological sources indicate what happened to the family of messiah, the descendants of David.

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. Ezra 1:8, 11; 2:2; 3:8; 4:2, 3; 5:2, 14, 16; Neh 7:7; 12:1, 47.

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. Haggai 1:1, 12, 14; 2:2, 4, 21, 23; Zech 4:6, 7,9, 10.

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So how can be Messiah from the descendent of David, or even alleged Messiah's mommy too, when the seed of David ceased to exist long before so-called Messiah?

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"An uninformed person cannot conceptualize the essence of knowledge nor its sublimity. One who fails to conceptualize something, its significance will never become rooted in the heart."

OK, I will stop the colors.

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"An uninformed person cannot conceptualize the essence of knowledge nor its sublimity. One who fails to conceptualize something, its significance will never become rooted in the heart."

i think i'm gonna start doing that. for instance, "there is no god" is found repeatedly in the bible*but that hardly represents the opinions of its authors, does i t? * Deu 32:39, 1Ki 8:23, 2Ki 1:16, 2Ki 5:15, 2Ch 6:14, Psa 14:1, Psa 53:1, Isa 44:6, Isa 44:8, Isa 45:5, Isa 45:14, Isa 45:21

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אָרַח

actually, the first bit about a messiah at all was that he would restore the house of david to the throne in a united israel and judah, post-exile.however, i don't think that's in the bible. anyone know the source of this standard?

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My personal opinion about Jesus:He is a foul mouth rude person, who pissed off everyone. When he is not insulting the Jews, he was talking gobbledygook that no one has a clue. He was not a leader or reformist or motivater, or guide. Jesus didn't die for no one's sin but for the crime he committed i.e. Jesus' terrorist attack on the temple causing about a 1000 death then.Jesus was also bisexual as we learn from:CANON MONTEFIORE: WAS JESUS GAY?Speaking of Jesus at the Modern Churchmen’s conference at Oxford, 1967, Canon Hugh Montefiore, Vicar of Great St. Mary, Cambridge, stated:Women were his friends, but it is men he is said to have loved. The striking fact was that he remained unmarried, and men who did not marry usually had one of the three reasons: they could not afford it; there were no girls; or they were homosexual in nature. (See The Times, July 28, 1967.)MARTIN LUTHER: JESUS COMMITTED ADULTERY THRICEMartin Luther also negates the image of a sinless Jesus. This is to be found in Luther’s Table-Talk (See Weimer edition, ii: 107) whose authenticity has never been challenged even though the coarser passages are cause for embarrassment. Arnold Lunn writes:Weimer quoted a passage from the Table-Talk in which Luther states that Christ committed adultery three times, first with the woman at the well, secondly with Mary Magdalene, and thirdly with the woman taken in adultery, whom he let off so lightly. Thus even Christ who was so holy had to commit adultery before he died. (See Arnold Lunn, The Revolt Against Reason, Eyre & Spottiswoode (Publishers), London, 1950, p.233.)Following is the original!Christus adulter. Christus ist am ersten ein ebrecher worden Joh. 4, bei dem brunn cum muliere, quia illi dicebant: Nemo significat, quit facit cum ea? Item cum Magdalena, item cum adultera Joan. 8, die er so leicht dauon lies. Also mus from Christus auch am ersten ein werden ehe er starb.

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"An uninformed person cannot conceptualize the essence of knowledge nor its sublimity. One who fails to conceptualize something, its significance will never become rooted in the heart."

wanna tell where the heck that came from? i mean, i know the "jews" and "gobbledygook" bit comes from the gospel of john. but the rest of it?