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Author | Topic: Did They Write About Jesus in the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18351 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Checkmate, I found where your baseless assertions about Jesus came from. You quoted your own webpage, which is the spirit of the antichrist
but Jesus Himself said that many would persecute Him. Not too many people persecute mohammed because he is just a mere man and is no threat to the demonic principalities that rule the minds and hearts of men. (There...my rant is done!) That being said, you have a right to your opinion. Just let us know the source that you glean it off of. I would advise against dissing God, however. I also would advise checking up on your Islamic guru, Shahid bin Waheed. This guy has little if any credentials...even with Muslims!
Some refutations This message has been edited by Phatboy, 04-25-2005 10:30 PM
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1374 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Not too many people persecute mohammed you kidding? we're currently waging war on the muslim fundamentalist world.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1374 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
google is an awesome resource.
this talking about you, by any chance? http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ29.HTM
quote: quote: quote: see, context IS important. basically, you're using a rhetorical argument in a hypothetic story designed to prove a point the demonstrate, out of context, how martin luther felt about christ. hey, i'm not even gonna have to say anything. it's all in that link: http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ29.HTM This message has been edited by Arachnophilia, 04-26-2005 12:32 AM
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3488 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:Tread lightly, please. Your opinion post didn't serve to further the topic of this discussion. If you wish to get into that type of discussion, please start your own thread, don't pull this one off topic. Thanks and welcome to EvC. This message has been edited by purpledawn, 04-26-2005 06:15 AM "The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France
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Tal Member (Idle past 5707 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: |
muslim fundamentalist world. Incorrect. We are waging war on a small group of muslim fundamentalist extremists. Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8 No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1374 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Incorrect. We are waging war on a small group of muslim fundamentalist extremists well, three groups. and governments that support them. and iraq. but my comment was mostly meant to be ironic: i'm certain members of these groups think that we are waging a war on islam even if we have lots of islamic people here who we treat just fine.
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Checkmate Inactive Member |
quote: Wow I am impressed, Sherlock Holomes, nay, it is a news to me that I have a web page You are making nonsense just like Jesus in the NT. Had I known that you have the knolwedge of unknown and unseen, I would have taken you as god. But we both know that you are just a human, making non-sensical claims. Junior I will ignore your post with non-sensical assertions. Go and get some real knowledge before locking the "horns" with me. The article I quoted has absolute referecnes from your "idol" AKA Martin Luther who wrote that Jesus was an adulterer. Now Christians have failed to refute Martin Luther for last 1000 years. Wasn't this guy also founded your false cult of "Protestantism?" So please take this issue to your people, Muslims or I have nothing to do with it. Oh, by the way, your scholarship in limited to using website "answering-Islam" as your sole source? Those guys are on the run ( and can only publich disinformation) and here is the proof. Proof # 1. Proof # 2. They (website "answering-islam") are running like Jesus use to run from Phirasses who used to debunk him left and right, this is one main reason Jesus avoided Jerusalem. "An uninformed person cannot conceptualize the essence of knowledge nor its sublimity. One who fails to conceptualize something, its significance will never become rooted in the heart."
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Checkmate Inactive Member |
quote: Why don't you let Muslims be the judge of that? Don't forget! "The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do." Samuel P. Huntington "An uninformed person cannot conceptualize the essence of knowledge nor its sublimity. One who fails to conceptualize something, its significance will never become rooted in the heart."
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Checkmate Inactive Member |
quote: Hi there Thanks for your response, but we cannot accept these sources or what they say as statements of truth or facts for many reasons, 1. Martin Luther was not some punk, he was somebody who made sense then, which enabled him to make people march behind him. 2. Had ML been that irresponsible to get drunk and shoot his mouth off? Then Catholics and Vatican would have annihilated ML. 3. The Christian spin doctors , especially Catholics are trying to do the damage control in the links. 4. The ironey of their non-sense is that they are speaking for ML and telling the readers as added bonus that what ML meant? It is a joke to begin with. "An uninformed person cannot conceptualize the essence of knowledge nor its sublimity. One who fails to conceptualize something, its significance will never become rooted in the heart."
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ramoss Member (Idle past 642 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
So, it your total refutation using a fundamentalist islamic site promoting islam? Where is the scholarship? I already noted that they seem to have invented comments that don't exist in the original text on a reference to the DDS.
Why should I believe liars? That particular web site uses lies.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1374 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
1. Martin Luther was not some punk, he was somebody who made sense then, which enabled him to make people march behind him. 2. Had ML been that irresponsible to get drunk and shoot his mouth off? Then Catholics and Vatican would have annihilated ML. had martin luther really indeed thought and preached that jesus was gay, it would then follow that more people might think so. no, you missed the important part: it was a rhetorical argument. he was telling something like a parable.
3. The Christian spin doctors , especially Catholics are trying to do the damage control in the links. your post (and the page it's copied from) read like nothing but pure spin itself. a good sign of spinning is that context is removed, and you have no context. now, this is horrendously off-topic, and more than a but looney. we're talking about they wrote about jesus in the law, the prophets, and the psalms. i listed those books back on page one. if it's not one of those books, it's not up for discussion. and martin luther is not in those book.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Like many people, faith doesn't look at the phrase in context. You can come up with anything you want if you keep doing that. As I already pointed out somewhere here, not only the highly competent Christian translators of the Hebrew scriptures into many languages over the centuries, but the highly competent JEWISH translators of the Greek Septuagint, a couple hundred or more years before Christ, translated the Hebrew "Almah" to mean "virgin" (Greek "Parthenos") in TWO places, one in Isaiah 7:14 and the other somewhere I think in the Song of Songs -- or maybe I got that wrong and it's Genesis 24:43, which is where my KJV has it as "virgin." There are three or four other uses of the word "Almah" in the Hebrew scriptures and they were all translated "young woman" or the equivalent. Also there are a couple dozen uses of the word "virgin" in the English translation, and all but these two mentioned above are from the Hebrew "Betulah." Only those two are from the Hebrew "Almah." The fact that in TWO places the highly competent JEWISH translators decided "Almah" meant specifically "virgin" is tremendous evidence for its accuracy. This message has been edited by Faith, 04-27-2005 08:21 PM
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You still haven't shown me where God shows his people that one-line prophecies are to be pulled out and used at a later date and are not a functioning part of the prophecy at the time it was spoken. Per your Message 109 quote: Isaiah 7:11 "Ask a sign for yourself from the LORD your God; make it deep as Sheol or high as heaven." 7:12 But Ahaz said, "I will not ask, nor will I test the LORD!" 7:13 Then he said, "Listen now, O house of David! Is it too slight a thing for you to try the patience of men, that you will try the patience of my God as well? 7:14 "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel. 7:15 "He will eat curds and honey at the time He knows enough to refuse evil and choose good. 7:16 "For before the boy will know enough to refuse evil and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread will be forsaken. 7:17 "The LORD will bring on you, on your people , and on your father's house such days as have never come since the day that Ephraim separated from Judah, the king of Assyria." If we remove verse 7:14, the prophecy makes no sense for Ahaz. ALL that entire passage refers to the Messiah. NONE of it refers to Ahaz. As I said, this is not a case of a double fulfillment. Ahaz is being given the prophecy of the Messiah, period.
Also verse 7:14 by itself is also an incomplete prophecy. It doesn't include who the sign is for or what the sign is a sign of. What you don't seem to get is that it is often the very out-of-context oddness of passages like this that indicate their nature as prophecy. Often it is only after they are fulfilled that they are fully understood, though at the time they may not be at all, or only partially. But as such passages accumulated over the centuries before Christ, the Jews did recognize them as messianic prophecies and spent much time formulating a portrait of the Messiah from them.
Stick with this prophecy and explain how God shows that the verses of this prophecy were to be understood separately and were for different centuries. They aren't to be understood separately OR for different centuries. They all pertain to the Messiah yet to come.
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ramoss Member (Idle past 642 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
You are , of course, quite incorrect. Why don't you include Isaiah 8:1-18 in your reading of it?? You do realise that the scheme of numbering the verses is a medival Christian invention, and is not how the author cut things up.
Let's see
quote:In other words, to 'fullfill' Isaiah 7:14, it told the exact steps Isaiah took to get the sign fullfilled. If that is not enough, lets look at Isaiah 8:18
quote: In other words, Isaiah is specifically saying that He and his children are the signs given to Israel.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Talk to the translators of the Septuagint who made "almah" mean "virgin" there and in Genesis 24.
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