|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Reasons why the NeoCons aren't real Republicans | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
They lack fiscal discipline.
They believe in more government intrusion into people's personal lives rather than personal liberty. They believe in nation building, preemptive war, and "might is right". They believe in reducing the power of state governments. Anyone have anything to add?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Seriously, are Monk, Tal, and Paisano all 100% supportive of the neocons and everything they do?
I would have thought that the Republicans on this board would LOVE a thread where they get a chance to list the ways their party has been corrupted by the decidedly UN-conservative policies of the neocons. It's just more evidence of that team mentality I keep talking about.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: LOL! I guess I could forgive you, you were young. Seriously, I was very lukewarm on Gore and wished there was a better Democratic candidate, but even back then Bush made my skin crawl.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Don't you feel or recognize there is a difference in core values and practices between the neocons presently in charge, and traditional republican values? quote: Please elaborate. Go on. Criticizing your own party in public is OK. I promise that nothing bad will happen. This message has been edited by schrafinator, 06-19-2005 07:58 PM
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
I'd prefer a McCain type platform, but I certainly have zero interest in the Democrats. Would Schraf vote for a Goldwater-type candidate? I doubt it. So what is the point of this thread, other than mutual commiseration over the neocons? I would have voted for McCain over Gore in the 2000 elections, no question. I think McCain is a very intelligent, moral man who truly wants to do what's right for all of the American people (not just the rich and the Christian Right), and is a very thoughtful, proven leader. So, yes, I would have voted for a Goldwater-type candidate. Anyway, between George W. Bush and John Kerry, which one do you think is more like Goldwater? I'll give you one guess.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: As the originator of this thread I hereby concur that the above is exactly what I wanted to discuss.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: So, does this mean it is OK with you if the government arrests people and throws them in jail without charges if they do have something to do with terrorism? It's seriously OK with you that the US govenment has discarded habeas corpus? And tell me, where in the Patriot Act does it require the government to provide evidence that an individual "has something to do with terrorism?" How does the government define "terrorism" in the Patriot Act?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Message 33 awaits.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
The atrocities (to which you supplied the quote) neglected to mention the addition actions of being chained to the floor and being denied food and water. Are you agreeing that this sort of treatment is ok? quote: Are you saying that this treatment is in keeping with the ideals of this Country? quote: So, it would be perfectly OK with you if US citizens were chained to the floor in a prison in a foreign country and denied food and water, without being charged for any crimes, without access to any legal or embassy, indefinitely?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Let's start with Operation Rescue and the Michigan Militia.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Would it be perfectly fine with you for other countries to imprison US citizens, without filing any charges, conducting any trial, nor allowing them any contact with family, legal council, nor contact with their embassy, indefinitely?
So, Tal, is it OK with you that the US has abandoned habeas corpus? I have asked this question of you at least 3 times now. Why do you refuse to answer?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: OH! I didn't realize that every single one of the Gitmo detainees had had specific charges brought against them and evidence presented which proves that they are guilty of using terrorist tactics. I didn't realize that each of the detainees had been been tried, being allowed legal council and to prepart their own defense and have their case heard fairly by an impartial court. Can you send me to a link of more information about this happening, because it sure is news to me. I also didn't realize that the US government had narrowly defined the term "terrorist tactics". Also, is it OK with you that the US has abandoned habeas corpus?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: If the government doesn't have enough evidence to convict someone, even if they are guilty, we have to set them free. That's the way a free nation works. What you are suggesting is that it is somehow consistent with our democratic principles for our government to hold people indefinitely without charging them with any crime, without allowing them access to family, legal council or their embassies. Why is it OK with you that we have abandoned habeas corpus?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
I didn't realize that every single one of the Gitmo detainees had had specific charges brought against them and evidence presented which proves that they are guilty of using terrorist tactics. quote: How do we know? Can we see the evidence? Are there charges filed somewhere?
I didn't realize that each of the detainees had been been tried, being allowed legal council and to prepart their own defense and have their case heard fairly by an impartial court. quote: So...we can hold them indefinitely without filing any charges and without any judicial or congressional oversight? This is the kind of United States you want to live in?
I also didn't realize that the US government had narrowly defined the term "terrorist tactics". Also, is it OK with you that the US has abandoned habeas corpus? quote: If we keep it loosely defined, anyone and everyone can be defined as engaging in "terrorist tactics". Are people in Operation Rescue engaging in "terrorist tactics"? According to the government's definition, they are:
Section 802 of the USA PATRIOT Act (Pub. L. No. 107-52) expanded the definition of terrorism to cover domestic, as opposed to international, terrorism. A person engages in domestic terrorism if they do an act dangerous to human life that is a violation of the criminal laws of a state or the United States, if the act appears to be intended to: (i) intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping. I am in particular thinking of Operation Rescue's clear efforts to intimidate or coerce a civilian population. Should we toss Randall Terry into Gitmo? Considering the current price for engaging in "terrorist tactics" against the US is to "disappear", possibly forever, I think that the government owes it to all people to define "terrorist tactics" in a narrow way, don't you?
quote: Yes. Of course, YES! Habeas corpus for EVERYONE accused of any crime by us. That's the way civilized, intelligent, rational people conduct their courts, Tal. If we abandon habeas corpus, then we are philosophically no better than the thugish governments in Central America or China. And anyway, American citizens HAVE been held indefinitely by our government without charges. This message has been edited by schrafinator, 06-23-2005 10:01 AM
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Basic human rights be damned. quote: If all the women interrogators did was "talk" that would be one thing. But they didn't just talk, did they? They were dressed in a sexually provocative manner, and rubbed their bodies up against the men. They even smeared fake menstrual blood on at least one man which would make him unclean and rendering them unable to pray, according to Muslim religious parctices.
link Now the US Military is pimp to it's female interrogators?
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024