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Author Topic:   Schrafinator and others fire mike
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4750
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 1 of 15 (217063)
06-15-2005 8:05 AM


Schrafinator writes:
Mike, this is my last post to you.
I have lost all respect for you, I am sad to say. You are not worth my time anymore, because I have answered all of these questions for you at least a dozen times. You clearly DO NOT WANT to understand anything.
You are smarter, much smarter than this, but you have chosen willful ignorance over enlightenment.
I am really very sad.
Goodbye, and have a nice life wrapped up in your ignorance.
I don't understand this. Irishrockhound also said this to me. I would like to know why people get so annoyed and feel this way with a creationist if none-belief is a dispassionate lack of belief in God. Surely people get offended if I don't believe in evolution.
Shraff, please explain more about why you think this way about me all of a sudden.
Are you firing mike like you fire God when he doesn't perform your will?

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by nator, posted 06-15-2005 8:25 AM mike the wiz has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2160 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 2 of 15 (217069)
06-15-2005 8:25 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by mike the wiz
06-15-2005 8:05 AM


It's not "all of a sudden", mike.
You have been here, on this board for a long time, just like I have, and you have been asking very nearly the same questions you came here with, over and over again.
There are fact-based, scientific answers to these questions, and these are provided to you, along with corrections of your factual and logical errors.
You reject them, over and over again.
Clearly, you don't care what anyone else thinks about science, not even when actual scientists here tell you you are completely mistaken.
I am tired of wasting my time on someone who has so little respect for education and knowledge that he would spit on it repeatedly like you have.
I finally realize that you have no interest in debating in good faith.
quote:
I would like to know why people get so annoyed and feel this way with a creationist if none-belief is a dispassionate lack of belief in God.
It's not your belief, but your behavior.
Your refusal to take in the information provided to you, and then your subsequent repetition of the same questions and false dilemmas all over again.
At some point, you usually get cornered and start lashing out and either get suspended or quit for a while, and then the cycle begins again.
I am simply fed up. There is absolutely no point in talking to you if you refuse to listen to reason or take in facts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by mike the wiz, posted 06-15-2005 8:05 AM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by mike the wiz, posted 06-15-2005 9:35 AM nator has not replied
 Message 13 by Silent H, posted 06-15-2005 2:44 PM nator has not replied

mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4750
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 3 of 15 (217083)
06-15-2005 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by nator
06-15-2005 8:25 AM


You have been here, on this board for a long time, just like I have, and you have been asking very nearly the same questions you came here with, over and over again.
Give an example.
Your premise is that I'm asking questions, so I can have an answer and then convert. Mine is that I am adressing problems which haven't been adequately explained or refuted, IMHO.
There are fact-based, scientific answers to these questions, and these are provided to you, along with corrections of your factual and logical errors.
If you think there are answers, fair enough. However, I have made no logical errors, and nobody has corrected me, even if they think they have. I invite anyone to try, they haven't. All they say is "along with corrections of your factual and logical errors". Show me some.
I am tired of wasting my time on someone who has so little respect for education and knowledge that he would spit on it repeatedly like you have.
How have I done this? I believe homo floresiensis exists just like you do, and oxygen. I just don't believe in the theories, which used to be no big deal back in the day. Popular scientific theories usually prove all wrong anyway. Remember Einstein? Light bending by gravity etc. What a crank, or ahem, what a genius.
At some point, you usually get cornered and start lashing out and either get suspended or quit for a while, and then the cycle begins again.
I was only suspended once when I chose to be.
My behaviour is the same as ever. You seem to be so very upset with me, and even hate me with a great intolerance.
I am simply fed up. There is absolutely no point in talking to you if you refuse to listen to reason or take in facts.
I take in everything, I'm just not obliged to believe everything if I have a better answer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by nator, posted 06-15-2005 8:25 AM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Sylas, posted 06-15-2005 9:59 AM mike the wiz has replied

Sylas
Member (Idle past 5250 days)
Posts: 766
From: Newcastle, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2002


Message 4 of 15 (217088)
06-15-2005 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by mike the wiz
06-15-2005 9:35 AM


Give an example
It may not be quite what you mean; but the disabling bacterial resistance thread is a case in point, where you continue to repeat stuff that has been plainly shown in the thread to be wrong. You don't recognize the corrections; but that is precisely your failing, and you've got all you need in the thread to fix it. I don't see any need to add to it.
It can be hard to persuade an intelligent man, but the merely obstinate are invincible.
I'm with Schraf on this. I used to see a glimmer of credible thought going on, but over the last year you appear to have responded to endless refutations by withdrawing behind a defiant shell of ignorance, all the while proclaiming victory in much the same way as Monty Python's black knight.
This is the tragedy of creationism. You disagree of course; and continue to proclaim victory. Shrug. Good luck to you. Disagreements are expected in this area and don't trouble me. You remain a useful member of the board and a colleague I'd be glad to buy a drink if our paths were to cross.
But if I was to engage you on any substantive matter these days, it would not be with any aim of persuading you of anything. That seems not to be possible.
The best I would hope for is to let your views and mine be seen side by side; and as long as I feel my position has been expressed clearly then that is victory enough for me. There are some folks, unlike you or I, who are undecided on the matter and curious as to the basis we have for our respective views.
Cheers -- Sylas

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by mike the wiz, posted 06-15-2005 9:35 AM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by mike the wiz, posted 06-15-2005 10:15 AM Sylas has replied

mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4750
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 5 of 15 (217095)
06-15-2005 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Sylas
06-15-2005 9:59 AM


mike the wiz writes:
if you benefit enough from a big brain and you're an ape then you won't survive.
do survive long, then you don't benefit from a big brain.(contrapositive)
NS is necesssity based. Don't you see that if it was a necessity to have a big brain and you didn't have one, you would not survive. All can then be said is to affirming the antecedent (modus ponens) or deny the consequent (modus tollens.
I don't think the problem is a big brain or apes would be dead. I think degenerative conditions of the planet, means some animals can't survive. Numbers will be a factor, and circumstances.
On my terms Sylas, how is my argument wrong?
If you disagree with my argument, that's fair enough.
But no one has corrected me so far, as my argument is valid. Hating my character won't change that people. Majority Opinion has too much emphasis at this site. Jar is on my back even because he dislikes that I am creo, yet he knows I am bad within the rules.
Sylas, I apreciate your post, atleast you can say; "You remain a useful member of the board and a colleague I'd be glad to buy a drink if our paths were to cross."
You have to realise that a lot of intelligent intellects like your good self, don't get humour for some reason. Dan Carroll, I think, gets it.
Do you really think I am self-important or do you think I'm laughing my tits off? Read, "mike's ego trip" for laughs. Like Dan, I put humour first a lot of the time. Afterall, it's fun to laugh and everybody here is so darn serious.
If you don't think it's comedy then there's no hope for you. Saying "irrefutable" is for laughs, because it gets such a rise out of people and I think "blimey, that really wound them up and it's so obviously a jest, how perculiar".
This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 06-15-2005 10:17 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Sylas, posted 06-15-2005 9:59 AM Sylas has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Sylas, posted 06-15-2005 11:07 AM mike the wiz has replied

Sylas
Member (Idle past 5250 days)
Posts: 766
From: Newcastle, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2002


Message 6 of 15 (217116)
06-15-2005 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by mike the wiz
06-15-2005 10:15 AM


Do you really think I am self-important or do you think I'm laughing my tits off?
I think you are completely outclassed and that you are unable to deal with it. Since you ask, I suspect that the "humour" is a reflection of this inability to handle a more meaningful or serious discussion. I'm may be quite wrong; but it looks like a said little defence mechanism in response to getting your head handed to you time and time again. But second guessing motives does not interest me very much and I don't like to play games. Best just to deal with the substance. I suggest you don't ask me questions like that. I'm sufficiently humourless and self-important to answer them plainly.
Your argument was basically that selection has to be all or nothing. This is ridiculous on the face of it, and was effectively demolished in Message 22 and Message 28, and others. You can laugh if off, and confidently declare that nonone has corrected you. This is an example of the kind of obdurate stupidity that makes further discussion rather pointless.
Cheers -- Sylas

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by mike the wiz, posted 06-15-2005 10:15 AM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by mike the wiz, posted 06-15-2005 12:16 PM Sylas has not replied

mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4750
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 7 of 15 (217147)
06-15-2005 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Sylas
06-15-2005 11:07 AM


You see Sylas, when it comes down to it, you guys are a lot of talk.
You know very well that my implication, that I shown in my previous post, is unrefuted.
Best just to deal with the substance
What you don't realize, is that there is no substance in saying "getting your head handed to you".
Listen, if a majority thinks I've been refuted, that the consensus is so, that itself doesn't refute anything I have to say.
If you "think I am outclassed" that's all well and dandy but it doesn't mean I am.
Post 22 refutes Natural selection. NS is not an abitrary selector, it is defined as necessity based. A fast runner will not die, a slower one will. If an ape would benefit from a big brain then only by necessity it will only get one according to NS. Either it needs one therefore it will die, or it doesn't need to evolve.
Continue to say I am outclassed. Like Spock before me, I have no ego to bruise.
The truth is Sylas, you and others don't like what I say, and appear to have no sufficient answer to it. Now how is it possible a fool of God is wiser than men?
This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 06-15-2005 12:21 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Sylas, posted 06-15-2005 11:07 AM Sylas has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Phat, posted 06-15-2005 2:11 PM mike the wiz has replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 12993
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 8 of 15 (217164)
06-15-2005 1:23 PM


There's a strong irony in this discussion. People are trying to get Mike to comprehend that he's not capable of comprehending. If they're right then I don't see much likelihood of success.
I don't have any problem with this thread, it can stay open for as long as people are interested. It is a bit amusing to see Mike pull a Buzsaw and begin a thread inviting people to have at him.
But this thread raises a point that I've been harping on with increasing frequency this year: we want people here who contribute positively to the quality of discussion. Those not capable of rational discussion should not be welcome here. In my view, no discussion at all is preferable to nonsense discussions. Any and all views are permitted here, but not any and all personalities. Those that are unable to conform to the Forum Guidelines, including those parts of it intended to promote productive discussion, should be invited to go elsewhere. They certainly shouldn't be permitted to remain here indefinitely as a validation of the Schiller quote, "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain."

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by AdminJar, posted 06-15-2005 1:37 PM Admin has not replied

AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 15 (217166)
06-15-2005 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Admin
06-15-2005 1:23 PM


except...
IMHO we need to be constantly reminded of two things.
"Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain."
"While there may be biological limits on how smart someone can be, there's no limit on stupidity."
This message has been edited by AdminJar, 06-15-2005 12:41 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Admin, posted 06-15-2005 1:23 PM Admin has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 10 of 15 (217177)
06-15-2005 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by mike the wiz
06-15-2005 12:16 PM


Take a breather, Mike
Mike--after reading this thread, I will say that you have irritated a few people. Whether or not it is your fault is irrelevant.
You know as well as I do that some people will never be convinced of anything. Why go off on this rant???
I say leave the computer and go for a walk or go to the gym or go ride the bike.
I am taking no sides here except to say that the rant is not helping.
PB

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by mike the wiz, posted 06-15-2005 12:16 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by robinrohan, posted 06-15-2005 2:19 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 14 by mike the wiz, posted 06-15-2005 2:59 PM Phat has not replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 15 (217179)
06-15-2005 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Phat
06-15-2005 2:11 PM


Re: Take a breather, Mike
Maybe Brad McFall and Mike the Wiz should have a great debate.
This message has been edited by robinrohan, 06-15-2005 01:19 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Phat, posted 06-15-2005 2:11 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by dsv, posted 06-15-2005 2:30 PM robinrohan has not replied

dsv
Member (Idle past 4714 days)
Posts: 220
From: Secret Underground Hideout
Joined: 08-17-2004


Message 12 of 15 (217185)
06-15-2005 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by robinrohan
06-15-2005 2:19 PM


Re: Take a breather, Mike
Or a heated pong match.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by robinrohan, posted 06-15-2005 2:19 PM robinrohan has not replied

Silent H
Member (Idle past 5809 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 13 of 15 (217190)
06-15-2005 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by nator
06-15-2005 8:25 AM


I find much irony in the following statement...
You have been here, on this board for a long time, just like I have, and you have been asking very nearly the same questions you came here with, over and over again.
There are fact-based, scientific answers to these questions, and these are provided to you, along with corrections of your factual and logical errors.
You reject them, over and over again.
Clearly, you don't care what anyone else thinks about science, not even when actual scientists here tell you you are completely mistaken.
I am tired of wasting my time on someone who has so little respect for education and knowledge that he would spit on it repeatedly like you have.
I finally realize that you have no interest in debating in good faith.
This could easily be my opinion of your behavior on specific topics, some quite recent. I also felt like telling you the above and say it isn't worth talking to you anymore.
But the fact is you are okay on some subjects, just not on others where you check all logic and willingness to discuss scientific evidence. Isn't that the same for Mike?
Do you think I should ditch you, or perhaps better phrased, do you think people at EvC should ditch other posters when they see this behavior, or should they simply state that this is what is happening and the other should try and improve?

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by nator, posted 06-15-2005 8:25 AM nator has not replied

mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4750
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 14 of 15 (217201)
06-15-2005 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Phat
06-15-2005 2:11 PM


Re: Take yo heads out yo asses, you're up yourselves
ADDENDUM OF IRREFUTABLE TRUTH.
No Phatboy, you've chosen your side by accusing me of ranting. Like everyone else, you couldn't possibly agree with the one pissing against the wind. Why not learn what I am saying instead? No offense Phatboy, I'm not taking sides or anything. If people are irritated, that's their problem, as I am here to debate, not irritate.
If people get angry - they shouldn't be getting emotionally involved. Oh sure, no limits to stupidity Percy, that's dandy, now kindly refute the logic in message 6 please. If only people could back up their insults with some action.
Like others, the powers of admin I hope are not turning you over to self-righteousness Phatboy. You don't actually think being an admin changes anything do you? Where's that guy who used to debate for the cause rather than rolling over for 'em?
Phatboy, you are on their side, if you didn't know that by now it's about time you did. You have chosen the worldites, and I have not. Unlike me and Buz, you have turned into Jar number 2, and I don't know why people are so sucked in by honour of men. So I am sad to see you are with them on this. The bible says to seek honour of God, and that's what I've done. You have chosen honor from evos and admins. Now you're punching mike and saying "oh mike, I'm not punching you, I don't take sides".
Sylas had an emotional outburst in messages 6. Message 7 wasn't a rant/. Like others before me used to say, an add hominem attack isn't a refutation.
Saying, "haha, we're so darn great, and everyone agrees you're refuted" logically doesn't mean squat. And everybody doesn't even get what I mean by that basic logic, LOL. basics!!!
The nazis backed Hitler, but that didn't make their majority right. Therefore it is TOTALLY logically IRRELEVANT if people call me stupid, and say I've "had my head handed to me" in debate. it proves nothing.
An actual refuation would refute me.
This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 06-15-2005 03:02 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Phat, posted 06-15-2005 2:11 PM Phat has not replied

AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 15 (217202)
06-15-2005 3:06 PM


Rant has gone on long enough.
Mike the Wiz has made his position clear.
Closing this down.

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