The World without Religion

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Primordial Egg:
I don't think any atheist would say they could prove that God did not exist - he's a slippery customer by definition - I personally find the concept quite absurd. To be agnostic about it to me is like being agnostic about Santa Claus, the Jolly Green Giant or the Munchkins.PE[/B][/QUOTE]the only real problem here comes about when something like an actual debate takes place between an atheist and a theist... we've all seen, heard, or taken part in those... i think the theist is warranted in asking the atheist for proofs for her beliefs... see, if a person says "God does not exist" then that person is making a truth claim, the same as the person who says, "God exists"... an atheist making a truth claim should be held to the same standards the theist is held to...this is why a lot of people have stopped saying they're atheist (in the strong sense from above)... they'd rather shift the burden of proof to the theist while not being forced to support their beliefs, their truth claims

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Originally posted by graedek:

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I am therefore an 'agthiest'
I beleive in god and don't have to prove it

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(thats what he told me to do so i listen)

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i actually think that's the best way to go anyway... assume God needs no proof (presuppose him), which is in fact true, and approach it from the view that the atheist is borrowing from the christian worldview even while arguing for the non-existence of Godnow, is the coffee done yet? *grin*

[QUOTE]Originally posted by robinrohan:
[B]Primordial, there are all sorts of reasons for claiming that God exists:1. What started the Big Bang?[/QUOTE]didn't you know, haven't you heard? it's an effect without a cause

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2. Why do we have a conscience? (don't play the Freudian card--I forbid you).

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darn, no freud... you mean i can't say 'cause of guilt feelings over incestful thoughts? sigh... how bout forever jung?

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3. Why through human history has every civilization believed in God?

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to justify actions?

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4. How did matter create mind (my personal favorite)?

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well you see, some protein in a primordial mix of nutrients/chemicals kinda joined with some other protein and enzymes and stuff were formed and then to control appearance and behavior dna molecules came about and then it happened again and over time (lots and lots and LOTS of time) all the different mammals and reptiles and amphibians and insects emerged... i think some of them may have crossbred or something but i'm not sure 'bout that

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Originally posted by Quetzal:
You're quite possibly correct. I pulled that example out of the air - it may not be the best to typify what I was trying to get across. Nonetheless, the basic point still stands - valuations such as "right" and "wrong" are culturally dependent.

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granting the cultural dependency of 'right and wrong' seems... well, wrong ... granting the valuation placed on acts that are *perceived* right or wrong seems a better way to state it...we've had this discussion so often it's really hard to say anything new... now i'm not saying that *every* act of man is or even can be considered objectively good or evil (such as female circumcision)... however, even if that's true does it follow that some things aren't evil, in an objective sense?to even hint that the torture, rape, and murder of a small child can, depending on societal or cultural bias, be "right" seems intuitively unsupportable... is such an act evil, in and of itself? or is it simply wrong based on the opinion of the majority at any one time?P=the rape, torture, murder of a small child is evil
Q=the rape, torture, murder of a small child is not evilP or Q
not ___
___fill in the blanks based on your own worldview or based on some objective standard? i dunno, what do you think?