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Author Topic:   Just a few questions...
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 4 of 54 (244529)
09-18-2005 1:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Enuf_Alredy
09-17-2005 11:02 PM


There really aren't any difficulties in the questions you raise. Let me take just one example:
The plants or the insects that live on and pollinate plants?
The oldest plants were pollinated by wind blown pollen. There are still many wind pollinated plants around today.
What happened is called co-evolution. The plants and the insects evolved together. Some insects fed on flowers, and accidently carried pollen. The plants evolved to make use of this, both by making the flowers more attractive to insects, and by making their pollen sticky so that the would better attach to the insects. There were then further successive stages of co-evolution.
Your question seems to be based on the assumption that the different things evolved independently, one before the other. But, for most of your questions, there was a co-evolution of several things.
For your RNA/DNA question, I'm not sure if a certain answer is known. Some biologists believe that RNA based systems evolved first, and the DNA mechanism evolved later. (I'm not a biologist. Somebody will correct me if I have that wrong).
For your lung question, the first creatures with lungs were aquatic. The lungs gave them additional ways to get oxygen. I'm not sure about your idea of "perfect mixture of gases". The creatures evolved to be able to make use of the atmosphere that was available.
The answers to your other questions are similar. For the moment, I will leave them for you to think about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Enuf_Alredy, posted 09-17-2005 11:02 PM Enuf_Alredy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by TheLiteralist, posted 09-18-2005 2:57 AM nwr has not replied
 Message 6 by TheLiteralist, posted 09-18-2005 3:23 AM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 13 of 54 (244570)
09-18-2005 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by TheLiteralist
09-18-2005 3:23 AM


Re: co-evolution? are you sure?
Are you saying that there was a time when only wind-pollenated plants existed?
Hmm, I probably misspoke on that. There are underwater plants, and unless we consider the water currents to be wind, those were not wind pollenated.
I should have said that wind pollenated plants preceded insect pollinated plants.
Responding to my comment on co-evolution, TheLiteralist wrote:
Are you sure this is the way it happened? Or, would it be better to say that most scientists believe it happened approximately like this? Could you provide us with the evidences that make you certain (or to believe) that the above scenario is the reasonable one?
Here is a link about this.
Just out of curiousity, what were the first creatures with lungs?
As far as I know, those would be lungfish. I'm a computer scientist, not a paleontologist, so I could easily be mistaken there.

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 Message 6 by TheLiteralist, posted 09-18-2005 3:23 AM TheLiteralist has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by TheLiteralist, posted 09-18-2005 10:34 PM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 19 of 54 (244728)
09-18-2005 10:54 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by TheLiteralist
09-18-2005 10:34 PM


Re: co-evolution? are you sure?
Now that we've got that cleared up (), would you mind sharing a few examples of what you consider evidence for your position that wind-pollenated plants preceded insect-pollenated plants?
Again, keep in mind that I'm a computer scientist and mathematician, not a paleontologist.
What I had in mind when I wrote that comment (on wind pollenation), was that the gymnosperms (includes conifers) were earlier than the angiosperms (flowering plants, some of which are insect pollenated). Just about any book on plants, including gardening books, will tell you that the gymnosperms are older.
My next question, then, would be, "Are lung-fish the predecessors to amphibians? If not, then what are the predecessors to amphibians?"
That's my understanding.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by TheLiteralist, posted 09-18-2005 10:34 PM TheLiteralist has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Nuggin, posted 09-18-2005 11:09 PM nwr has replied
 Message 36 by TheLiteralist, posted 09-19-2005 1:18 AM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 29 of 54 (244760)
09-19-2005 12:19 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Nuggin
09-18-2005 11:09 PM


Re: co-evolution? are you sure?
The predecessor to amphibians was likely related to the predessor to lungfish.
Thanks for the comment. I hadn't meant to suggest that modern lungfish were amphibian predecessors. I agree with your point.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Nuggin, posted 09-18-2005 11:09 PM Nuggin has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 40 of 54 (244787)
09-19-2005 2:10 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by TheLiteralist
09-19-2005 1:18 AM


Re: plants prior to insect-pollenated plants
But can you point to some authoritative information that supports the assertion that gymnosperms are older than angiosperms? It's a conclusion -- not something we can directly observe. How was the conclusion reached?
It's known from the fossil record. The gymnosperms are present in earlier (lower) layers, before the angiosperm fossils show up.
I seen that nuggin has given some details in Message 38 (my thanks to nuggin).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by TheLiteralist, posted 09-19-2005 1:18 AM TheLiteralist has not replied

  
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