randman writes:
Neanderthals have been described, not just as "all over the map", but in fact were described as some sort of missing link, very ape-like, from the beginning, and though we have known such descriptions were wrong since the early 50s, Neanderthals were depicted with exagerrated ape-like features and often shown a series of evolutionary links, and still are at times in educational materials.
Once again, both
Homo sapiens and
H. neanderthalis were/are apes. Therefore an ape-like depiction would be correct, even under your assertion that they are just a variety of
H. sapiens. I'm not sure what you mean by, "...and often shown a series of evolutionary links." Perhaps you meant "as part of a series?" {Edit: In any case, I think it's more appropriate to discuss what science says about
H. neanderthalis today rather than the discarded ideas of the past or the misrepresentations of the present that are not held by scientists in this field.}
randman writes:
Most depictions, imo, were largely false and misrepresentative. Neanderthals were people, did art, buried their dead, etc,...Keep in mind some tribes of people just 150 years ago and less lived in a similar fashion with similar levels of technology.
Imo, if you remove the historical misrepresentation and view the evidence outside of the evolutionary paradigms, the best way to view Neanderthals is simple as an ancient tribe of people. Due to inbreeding, certain traits will be more dominant among ethnic groups and tribes, and during periods of longer isolation probably partly due to weather, it is not surprising that some groups developed more pronounced features.
The molecular argument, I believe, is made to argue that Neanderthals just died out and did not interbreed with the tribes of men that survived and were pur forefathers. Some other evidence, I understand, suggests that is not the case since there are examples, from what I have read, of a mix of traits. I think it is far more likely some Neanderthals did intermix with the Cro-Magnon tribe. Cro-Magnons were essentially identical to modern humans except generally taller is my understanding.
But regardless if Neanderthals died out or some mixed in to produce modern ethnic groups of humanity, I think it is unreasonable to think Neanderthals could not breed with people today, and are something less than just people.
I note with approval that you are presenting most of these statements
as opinions, in contrast to the bold statement from the other thread: "
First off, I would argue Neanderthals are better thought of a tribe of homo sapiens and not a separate species." I would appreciate links or references with regard to the "mix of traits" you mention, if you have any available.
With regard to your sentence: I would absolutely regard
H. neanderthalis as "people," but I am using this term as distinct from "humans." The evidence suggests that they were a different species of "people," but certainly possessed cultural elements of personhood. That is arguable on semantic grounds, but I'm comfortable with it.
This message has been edited by Belfry, 01-07-2006 08:43 PM