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Author | Topic: Consciousness Continued: A fresh start | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Chronos Member (Idle past 6256 days) Posts: 102 From: Macomb, Mi, USA Joined: |
I do not believe that perceptions are inputed into the soul neither do I believe that decisions are outputed into the brain. I believe that the souls affects and corresponds to the electrical and chemical activity in the brain. It is the combination of the soul and the brain that create free will and conscious thought, perception, and sensatioanl experience. Are you just making a statement of faith, or are you going to tell us why you believe such things? You said the soul and brain do not communicate. How, then, does it effect the brain? How does the soul/brain combo give rise to consciousness? Do pretty much all animals with brains have souls? Do drugs have an effect on the soul? (Alcohol is known to affect judgement) Just a few questions to keep this train chug-a-luggin' along.
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Christian7 Member (Idle past 279 days) Posts: 628 From: n/a Joined: |
quote: No because I explained that consciousness can't arise from physical matter alone. All physical interactions are just changes in position in energy.
quote: It wouldn't be all over the place. It wouldn't be there, but it would exist.
quote: When I used outside I meant, not within space. I didn't actually mean outside of it. Another words, I am saying that physical things must be in space. If they are not in space, they don't exist.
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Christian7 Member (Idle past 279 days) Posts: 628 From: n/a Joined: |
quote: For example, it has been shown that a high concentration of electrical activity in the brain is related to the level of consciousness in those areas (correct me if I am wrong.) So, the soul, would correspond with the electrical activity in the brain by being conscious of those areas. There need no be any communication. There is no SABCP (Soul and Brain Communication Protocol). And, the soul could alter the electrical activity of the brain to affect it based on your decisions. But those decisions would be aided by the activity in your brain. The union of the brain and soul makeup the mind. Just because you have a brain though, doesn't mean you have a soul. Without the soul you lose to things: free will, and consciousness. I cannot say weather animals have a soul or not. Now, drugs to not effect the soul but the mind, which is the result of the interaction between the soul and the brain. Edited by Guidosoft, : No reason given. Edited by Guidosoft, : No reason given.
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5938 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
Guidosoft
For example, it has been shown that a high concentration of electrical activity in the brain is responsible for consciousness in those areas (correct me if I am wrong.) So, the soul, would correspond with the electrical activity in the brain by being conscious of those areas. Since electrical activity is responsible for consciousness how does a soul manage to be conscious if it does not partake of electrical activity that we have established to be necessary for consciousness?
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Although I don't believe a soul exists, could you nevertheless tell me what the soul is exactly, according to you? Exactly!? Sheesh . .I dunno. The soul is the immortal component of your existence that moves on to the afterlife after you die. Its what makes you, You. Its the ”image of god’ that makes us his children.
And why do the soul and the brain need to communicate? So the soul can receive input from the physical world. So that two souls can interact, through two people. I think of this life as a proving ground for the afterlife. Kindof a place for your soul to develop in preparation for the afterlife. It allows you to figure out what it is to exist and what you need to be happy, in this life and the next.
What do they communicate about? The physical world is source of our experiences. The brain receives the experiences and communicates them to the soul. I think the consciousness is the medium through which this communication takes place. They communicate about what it is to exist and what makes your existence ”worth it’. What makes you happy and fulfilled, and what doesn’t.
[/qs] What reason do you have to pose the existence of the soul?[/qs] Jesus’ teachings. To me, it seems like I have a soul. I was raised believing that it exists. Most people throughout the ages posed its existence.
Isn't consciousness alone enough of a conundrum? For me, adding a soul to the equation makes consciousness less of a conundrum. There’s no reason for me to be conscious, or exists, in a godless/souless universe. For some people, a reason for existence isn’t necessary. Of course we still have that age old questions of why are we here. What’s the meaning of life. It seems that most people think there is a reason and that includes me.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
There is most likley an highly complex pattern that humans are not yet able to fathem as to the actions of quantam particles. I do not believe they are just random. Eienstien said that God does not play dice. Of course, that is if you believe in God. lol. Liek I said, if I believed this I would be a determinist and believe that free will doesn't exist.
You actually being present in the physical world is just an illusion. I don't think the physical world is an illusion. This is probably where our opinions begin to differ. At least you know where I stand on the situation now. Our opinions on the soul aren't too far apart.
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ohnhai Member (Idle past 5192 days) Posts: 649 From: Melbourne, Australia Joined: |
May I ask is a persons 'personality' part of their soul/conciousness?
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
For me, adding a soul to the equation makes consciousness less of a conundrum.
Whereas I don't think it does anything of the kind. Perhaps it gives you an excuse to wear blinders, and stop looking to understand consciousness.
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
For example, it has been shown that a high concentration of electrical activity in the brain is responsible for consciousness in those areas (correct me if I am wrong.)
I don't think that has been shown. A correlation has been shown, but establishing a correlation falls short of demonstrating "is responsible for".
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Whereas I don't think it does anything of the kind. Perhaps it gives you an excuse to wear blinders, and stop looking to understand consciousness. I don't see why an additional category is needed. Why not call it "mind" or "consciousness"?
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
For me, adding a soul to the equation makes consciousness less of a conundrum.
Whereas I don't think it does anything of the kind. Perhaps it gives you an excuse to wear blinders, and stop looking to understand consciousness. If I wanted to wear blinders I wouldn't need an excuse. If I want to look to understand consciousness scientifically, I would do it assuming the soul did not exist. Parsimony gives you an excuse to wear blinders, and stop looking to understand spirituality.
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Ben! Member (Idle past 1429 days) Posts: 1161 From: Hayward, CA Joined: |
Parsimony gives you an excuse to wear blinders, and stop looking to understand spirituality. I agree with both you and nwr. In my eyes, the moral of the story is, the scientific study of consciousness and the uscientific development of a sense of self and spirituality do relate to each other, but neither is a subset of the other. As usual, it's important to be involved in both. When you fail to be aware of one, you'll make simple, amateurish mistakes in the other.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
the scientific study of consciousness and the uscientific development of a sense of self and spirituality do relate to each other, but neither is a subset of the other. That's what I'm talkin' 'bout. Just because I believe in the soul and think our consciousness is tied to it doesn't mean I'm incapable of critically analyzing or scientifically investigating that which is the consciousness. That charge that it gives me an excuse to wear blinders is insulting, but from someone who doesn't know me, I don't take offense.
As usual, it's important to be involved in both. When you fail to be aware of one, you'll make simple, amateurish mistakes in the other. I think its important to be involved in both too. Leaving one out removes such a large aspect of our existence. Did I make a simple amateurish mistake or were you just making a, notably good, point?
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Christian7 Member (Idle past 279 days) Posts: 628 From: n/a Joined: |
It is not directly responsible for consciosness. The soul is. So there.
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Parasomnium Member Posts: 2224 Joined: |
Guidosoft writes: As I debate, my views will change as your logic and mine clash. So expect me to revise my original statements in my old post. Perfect.
Guidosoft writes: I did say that everything that happens in the physical world is the result of physical interaction. I've made a mistake when I say that. Perhaps I should revise the statement to say that everything that happens naturally in the physical world is the result of physical interaction. This will resolve the problem. Perhaps you should define 'natural', because it isn't clear what you mean by it. What other ways are there, besides natural, for things to happen in the physical world? Is consciousness, in your view, a non-natural phenomenon?
For example, I might look through documents. I might write on those documents and read from those documents, but I am not communicating with those documents in order to interact with them. So the soul 'reads' and 'writes' the brain? How does it do that? There must be some form of physical interaction. How does the non-physical soul accomplish that? And what is the meaning of the status of the brain that the soul 'reads'? Suppose the soul reads: "I want to debate with Guido", then where does that desire come from? Who is this 'I'? And how does the brain know about the existence of Guido?
Communication is not required because the soul is responsible for both input and output, thus forming a union between the brain and the soul where only one end activly affects and recieves to and from the other. Then what does the brain do exactly? What is the nature of the input? And of the output? If the brain simply processes the input and produces output, and if the brain is just a physical 'machine', then isn't the soul dependent on an automaton, and hence, by extension, itself an automaton? If not, then what does the soul need the brain for? "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin. Did you know that most of the time your computer is doing nothing? What if you could make it do something really useful? Like helping scientists understand diseases? Your computer could even be instrumental in finding a cure for HIV/AIDS. Wouldn't that be something? If you agree, then join World Community Grid now and download a simple, free tool that lets you and your computer do your share in helping humanity. After all, you are part of it, so why not take part in it?
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