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EvC Forum ⇒ Social and Religious Issues ⇒ Faith and Belief ⇒

Will I see Hitler in heaven?

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Author Topic:   Will I see Hitler in heaven?
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3674 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005

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Message 1 of 99 (321756)
06-15-2006 7:47 AM

One of the great things about the "born-again" variety of Christianity (my own for a significant part of my life), is that I may well see Hitler in heaven - assuming he was saved just before his death.
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Jar has often mentioned his view of everyone being saved. This too leads Hitler to heaven. But in a recent thread, Jar gave a possible suggestion that salvation could be lost... a more traditional works based salvation. In this case, Hitler has probably not quite made the grade!
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I can think of no greater demonstration of the concept of grace than to see him there. So... what are the chances I will see Hitler in heaven? (assuming I make the grade given my almost continual heretical utterances)
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Faith and belief?
Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Modulous, posted 06-15-2006 8:20 AM cavediver has not replied
 Message 12 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 06-15-2006 11:45 AM cavediver has replied
 Message 15 by sidelined, posted 06-15-2006 12:30 PM cavediver has replied
 Message 19 by jar, posted 06-15-2006 1:15 PM cavediver has replied
  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3674 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005

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Message 7 of 99 (321771)
06-15-2006 8:52 AM 		Reply to: Message 6 by robinrohan
06-15-2006 8:43 AM

We cannot change their personalities from what they were on earth
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So much of personality is driven by experience, genetics, emotions (chemicals). In my mind heaven is where you can be free of all this baggage. It is the freed Hitler whom I am interested in. Perhaps in heaven we are beings of pure logic... Faith would have a fit
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 3674 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005

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Message 17 of 99 (321873)
06-15-2006 12:49 PM 		Reply to: Message 15 by sidelined
06-15-2006 12:30 PM

Grace for Hitler. Amazing
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Well, I think this topic could launch into a "nature of evil" thread on which I'd love to spend all the time I don't have.
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 3674 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005

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Message 18 of 99 (321887)
06-15-2006 1:14 PM 		Reply to: Message 12 by SuperNintendo Chalmers
06-15-2006 11:45 AM

Re: This presents a problem
This is a HUGE problem and pretty much proves that either their god is incompetent/foolish or that the faith alone concept is BS
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Or it could be that things are not as simple as they seem...
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If God is bound by certain constraints (perhaps of His own making) then it is not too hard to imagine scenarios where this would appear to be the end result. But then I'm off into gnostic-type heresies again.
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The oh-so-simple message of evangelical Christianity is not something I can accept as-is. If God's sense of justice is *eternal* punishment for those guilty of simply being born with Adam's sin, even if He has thrown us a life-line in the form of His Son, Jesus, then He can stick it. And I've told Him so... several times...
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But personally, I think it is much more complicated than this...
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 3674 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005

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Message 20 of 99 (321906)
06-15-2006 1:46 PM 		Reply to: Message 19 by jar
06-15-2006 1:15 PM

Everyone else seems to tell me what it is I believe so I guess you can too. LOL
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I was feeling left out
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Actually, it was more of a question than a statement, and your answer pretty much sums it up:
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there is salvation: we are all saved
there is judgement: we are all judged
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Two different concepts. Is this correct?
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 Message 19 by jar, posted 06-15-2006 1:15 PM jar has replied
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 3674 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005

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Message 36 of 99 (322228)
06-16-2006 11:19 AM 		Reply to: Message 34 by jar
06-16-2006 11:14 AM

Re: and the Second is a two parter.
Took me a long time to appreciate this truth, Jar, but it was worth getting there...
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