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Author | Topic: Absolute Morality...again. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
robinrohan Inactive Member |
Um, just because one particular word doesn't need interpretation doesn't mean other particular words don't. Yes, but the idea is that one has an anchor. If one has that, many things are possible. That means the meaning is not about texts but about concepts. So one can paraphrase someone else and mean exactly the same thing.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
What do you mean by "meaning... about texts?" According to what I called "relativism" or "post-structuralism," there is no way to get a definitive meaning out of any text, be it STOP or the play "Hamlet." In fact, "STOP" could be a theme of Hamlet (he stopped; he shouldn't have). So STOP could mean that. Any text contains potentially the meanings of all other texts. However, if meaning is not about words, but about concepts, then we can have an anchor.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Sounds like you want to go back to modernism before postmodernism came along and made rational thought impossible. I don't know if there was a school of literary criticism then with a name of its own, you would I suppose, though maybe your "literalism" would suffice for it, but this post-structuralism -- must be the same as deconstructuralism -- just set out to dismantle language's connection to reality and the very fabric of meaning we all depend on. I'm trying to tell you that if one says, "one must interpret all texts," as you said earlier, you are on dangerous ground.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Where did I say that? Can you link to it? I don't recognize it. Here:
There's no way to avoid interpretation this side of the Kingdom of God. If one cannot avoid interpretation, then one is stuck in a post-modern hellhole where one interpretation is as good as another.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
How do you measure / judge "goodness"? If you are asking me how I do it, I just go by my feelings. There's nothing else to go by.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Is this an existing theory or one you are developing? It's existing but it's not very popular. It has no name that I know of. I'll think of an author eventually (name escapes me).
Are you defining concept as something non verbal? Yes, it would have to be non-verbal.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Or are you thinking of something along the lines of Plato's archetypes, perhaps? I don't think so. The question is whether one can paraphrase an idea precisely. If one can, then there's a non-verbal concept involved. The non-verbal concept would be the meaning of the text. There would only be one meaning. Poststructuralism would be false.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
"Tomato" is a word for a thing you can eat. I ask you for a tomato and you hand me an apple we have had an unsuccesful communication The poststructuralist believes that "tomato" does not mean exactly the same thing to you as to me. If it means exactly the same thing, then we have a concept.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
I'm talking about the kind of interpretation where it's hard to get at the objective or original meaning, the meaning intended by the author, and this is shown in the fact that people naturally read different meanings into it The poststructuralist says that it's not just hard but impossible. A text has unlimited meaning.
(As I understand deconstructionism, it is based on a Marxist type of system, by which texts are interpreted as being "really" about class struggles rather than what they are ostensibly about, and an oppressor and oppressed class are ferreted out, no matter what the text is.) Theoretically, it doesn't have to be Marxist, but for some reason it usually is. What the author had in mind is of no importance to these theorists. There's no way to know what somebody had in mind.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
"means" is a difficult criterion, and to mean exactly the same thing seems very difficult. If you want everyone to select a tomato from a group of items that is one thing,but what about people who dislike tomatos vs. those who love them? What about those who believe they are poisonous vs. those who believe they are healthy? Given the individual conditionings how can tomato mean the exact same thing to any two people. I hold it is impossible. On the other hand it is reasonable to expect a large group of people to accurately identify a tomato even though they will have unique responses and associations to it. What I am calling literalism would say that those questions about whether one likes tomatoes or not is irrevelant to the concept of "tomato." The concept is precise and can be communicated no matter what words are used.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
The French.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Derrida, Foucault, Lacan et. al. Hard to read. Their prose is bad. I prefer Tolstoy or Samuel Johnson. One's prose style is a window to one's soul.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
That's because they're trying to cram reality into their ideology Tolstoy doesn't do this? Yeah, I think you are right. He doesn't do this.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
People do decide for themselves what is right or wrong... but there are definite consequences when their view of right and wrong diverges from the consensus. Morals appear to be based on feelings. There's no logical ground for them at all. But we have to understand that that includes ALL morals, liberal as well as conservative. If it's based on "consensus," that just means that they who have the power win this game. That's not morality. That's politics. Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Well, I hope then that what you are calling "concept" is a functional identification rather than some absolute ideal of tomato in itself. The issue is not about knowledge of the tomato. It's about whether one can communicate a precise idea to another via the text, or whether the reader always has to "interpret" it, which means choosing among alternative meanings.
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