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Author | Topic: Absolute Morality...again. | |||||||||||||||||||
LinearAq Member (Idle past 4706 days) Posts: 598 From: Pocomoke City, MD Joined: |
Faith writes:
Please tell me what Commandment # 6 means by the term "murder". The reason it is absolute is that He is absolute and the moral law expresses His own mind, and He made us in His image so we reflect His own mind -- or did before the Fall. God's writing the Ten Commandments in stone has the meaning that the Law is absolute. Written in stone =absolute. It means that He made His universe to run by them, He made human nature to operate by them, so that violations of them are resistance or opposition to the natural operations of things, which has inevitable repercussions. There is no way to avoid the repercussions of the Law. It affects everyone equally and exactly. It is a universal Law. Does this commandment apply to everyone equally? How about an unborn child?Exodus 21 quote: Or a resident of a conquered city...Joshua 6: quote: Or a slave who lingers a few days before dyingExodus 21: quote: Apparently, none of the above killings constitute "murder" so your definition of murder must be such that it cannot be applied to the actions described above.
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LinearAq Member (Idle past 4706 days) Posts: 598 From: Pocomoke City, MD Joined: |
Faith writes:
Please tell me what Commandment # 6 means by the term "murder". The reason it is absolute is that He is absolute and the moral law expresses His own mind, and He made us in His image so we reflect His own mind -- or did before the Fall. God's writing the Ten Commandments in stone has the meaning that the Law is absolute. Written in stone =absolute. It means that He made His universe to run by them, He made human nature to operate by them, so that violations of them are resistance or opposition to the natural operations of things, which has inevitable repercussions. There is no way to avoid the repercussions of the Law. It affects everyone equally and exactly. It is a universal Law. Does this commandment apply to everyone equally? How about an unborn child?Exodus 21 quote: Or a resident of a conquered city...Joshua 6: quote: Or a slave who lingers a few days before dyingExodus 21: quote: Apparently, none of the above killings constitute "murder" so your definition of murder must be such that it cannot be applied to the actions described above.
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LinearAq Member (Idle past 4706 days) Posts: 598 From: Pocomoke City, MD Joined: |
Catholic Scientist writes:
So, God set up a set of absolute moral boundaries for humans but decided to define those boundaries so poorly that we don't know if we exceed them or not? If god set up a perfect, and absolute, definition of murder and decided it is immoral, then it would be absolutely immoral if we can define it as well or not Could you explain the rationality of God doing this or of your believing that He has?
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LinearAq Member (Idle past 4706 days) Posts: 598 From: Pocomoke City, MD Joined: |
The absolute moral could still be there as "Thou shall not murder", we just don't have a working definition of murder, because in some cases, killing some is not wrong even though it is still killing someone, and in that case it would not be included in 'murder'. Thus the absolute moral still stands and we'd just have to argue over the definition of murder and the what if's would be is this murder, is that murder? Still, the absolute moral of not murdering would stand, it would just become reletive in what should be included in murder.
If the terms are not defined then you don't have an absolute anything (law, moral...etc). What you have is a statement which is interpreted differently depending upon the subjective definition of the terms by the reader. Admittedly, murder is not completely without definition. In fact, God himself provided some further clarity in regards to that term by exclusion, as I pointed out in my previous post. I am sure we could find more. Killing that is not murder according to the Bible.1. Killing an unborn child 2. Killing residents, including children, of conquered territories. 3. Killing of a slave as long as he/she suffers for longer than 2 days before expiring. Seems rather odd that Bible believers would likely categorize all of these as murder when the Bible clearly states that they are not.
LinearAq writes: Defining the choices distinctly does not eliminate choice...it provides for a more informed choice. Satan knew God existed and had even spoken to him directly, yet he chose to disobey. Seems to me that direct evidence of God's existence did not remove Satan's ability to choose. Could you explain the rationality of God doing this or of your believing that He has? Catholic Scientist writes: So that we have a choice. So we aren't robots that must be good and must believe in him. For some reason, he wants us to hafta have faith. Edited by LinearAq, : to address a comment that I missed in the first draft
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LinearAq Member (Idle past 4706 days) Posts: 598 From: Pocomoke City, MD Joined: |
I guess you want these questions answered. The following responses are to the questions as stated but not necessarily as intended.
1. Can you be both wet and dry, simultaneously?
Yes. I am dry externally but the inside of my circulatory system is wet.
2. Can you be in India and Sweden simultaneously?
Yes, at the Swedish embassy in New Delhi.
3. Can you be telling the truth and telling a lie simultaneously? Yes, if repeating a lie that you believe.
4. Is anyone getting younger as opposed to growing older? Yes, midlife crisis in men is described in just such a manner.
5. Can anyone live without sustenance or oxygen? Yes, I did it as I was typing this sentence by holding my breath and not eating anything. What do the answers to these questions have to do with absolute morals? What does the existance of absolutes anywhere else in the universe have to do with the question of absolute morality? Do you believe that showing there are absolutes in some things proves there are absolutes in everything? Could you step through your reasoning on this because the leap you made was difficult for me to follow.
Aside from which, why is the obvious eluding the masses? If morals aren't absolute then right and wrong don't exist because it ultimately relies on the opinions of those in power to assign for you what's right or wrong. We could even go so far as to say that even language doesn't make sense for words that convey absolute premises, such as, but not limited to, "Yes, no, right, wrong, left, right, up, down, good and evil." Those words are meaningless without them being in an absolut context.
The obvious is not always right...1. It's obvious that the sun orbits the earth every 24 hours. 2. It's obvious that a 10-lb ball will accelerate 10 times faster than a 1-lb ball. 3. It's obvious that a rabbit chews cud. I cannot think of a situation where yes and no are subjective except in sarcasm that is not understood by the receiver of that sarcasm. However, right, wrong, left, right, up, down, good and evil are obviously all subjective. Example: when telling someone a location you would say something like this, "The room is up from me to my left." The use of a point of reference was necessary to provide an exact location.Example: "Homosexuality is wrong according to the Bible." Actually, this sentence that states absolute judgement by the Bible is really providing a subjective opinion. It should be stated, "Homosexuality is wrong according to my interpretation of the Bible." In order to lend more support for your belief in the necessity of absolute morals, maybe you could provide an example of a moral rule that is absolute.
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LinearAq Member (Idle past 4706 days) Posts: 598 From: Pocomoke City, MD Joined: |
Catholic Scientist writes:
While this may be comforting, I don't see how we can work toward something that we cannot quantify or understand.
Its not that an absolute morality cannot exist, its just we cannot use one. Which really isn't too different from it not existing, except I believe in God and think that he does have one set up.....Hmmm, maybe an absolute morality would be perfect. Then it could be something for our morality to strive towards while realizing we we never actually reach it. Nope. I think it can strengthen your conscience. While believing in God and his absolute morality, when confronted with a day-to-day situation where I do not know what to do, morally, the old WWJD helps. Again, a good idea to follow what we think Jesus would do in any particular situation...ie: Golden Rule, perhaps. However, a sarcastic person could say:"WWJD? He would kick over their tables and chase them around with a whip." or "WWJD? He would insult the hosts views on sanitation and tell a tale of inside vs outside virtue." Personally, I like to stick to the "Golden Rule", Jesus.
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