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Author | Topic: Free will vs Omniscience | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kader Member (Idle past 3755 days) Posts: 156 Joined: |
Here in the OP
Message 1
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anastasia Member (Idle past 5981 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: |
Kader writes: .First, God knew you would die. You also died for a reason. (God has a plan). So how can the guy that shot you had any choice but to shoot you ? God knew you would die, yes. But I think it is a matter of opinion whether you died for a reason or not. I would say that God has some plans, but one of them is free will. The shooter had a choice also, yes, unless someone else squeezed his fingers on the trigger. Just because God knew what the shooter would do before hand doesn't mean he had no choice. Edited by anastasia, : No reason given. Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.
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Asgara Member (Idle past 2330 days) Posts: 1783 From: Wisconsin, USA Joined: |
Just because God knew what he would do before hand doesn't mean he had no choice. Does this God know what these actions will be before you are born? Is this God the sole creator of life?
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Asgara writes: Yes. I believe that the future is set much as the past is set. What has happened in the past has happened and nothing can change that fact.
Does this God know what these actions will be before you are born?
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Kader Member (Idle past 3755 days) Posts: 156 Joined: |
Phat does God have a plan for you ?
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Say that I died tomorrow. God foreknew that I would die and how I would die. This only means what it means---that God foreknew that on that day I would get shot since was in spot X. Does this mean that the guy who shot me could not have chosen a different path in the past? All that we can conclude is that the guy obviously didn't choose another path...not that he couldn't have. Just because something happens does not mean that it must happen...(unless you see it from Gods forward looking view)it simply means that it did happen.
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anastasia Member (Idle past 5981 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: |
Asgara writes: Does this God know what these actions will be before you are born? Is this God the sole creator of life? That is how I imagine it, yes.
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Asgara Member (Idle past 2330 days) Posts: 1783 From: Wisconsin, USA Joined: |
So, if this God created you knowing the final outcome...how can you truly have free will?
You are simply acting out the script that was written for you.
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Kader Member (Idle past 3755 days) Posts: 156 Joined: |
Say that I died tomorrow. God foreknew that I would die and how I would die. This only means what it means---that God foreknew that on that day I would get shot since was in spot X. Does this mean that the guy who shot me could not have chosen a different path in the past? All that we can conclude is that the guy obviously didn't choose another path...not that he couldn't have. Just because something happens does not mean that it must happen...(unless you see it from Gods forward looking view)it simply means that it did happen. But that doesnt answer the question.. Does god has a plan for you ?
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Websters writes: So in the sense of God desiring that I live life to the best of my ability through His will, yes He wants the best for me. 1plann 1 : a drawing or diagram showing the parts or details of something 2 : a method for accomplishing an objective; also : goal, aim He cannot have a plan as long as I have any control, so in this sense His plan is that I willfully and joyfully accept His guidance. He desires that I have relationship with Him so that I freely choose what turns out to always be the better option. His foreknowing my eventual destiny does not mean that He controls me.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Asgara writes: So, if this God created you knowing the final outcome...how can you truly have free will?Phat writes: Just because He knows what my decisions will be does not mean that He forced my decisions...only that I cannot force His knowledge. You are simply acting out the script that was written for you. I am co writing the script through my actions. Just because He knows what I want to do before I do does not mean that He activates my mind and moves my lips.
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Asgara Member (Idle past 2330 days) Posts: 1783 From: Wisconsin, USA Joined: |
no one said that he activates your mind or moves your lips
Does he or does he not already have your life scripted out before he creates you? If he doesn't then he doesn't know what will happen.
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anastasia Member (Idle past 5981 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: |
You are probably not going to like this answer; at the least it will only provoke more questions. But...
Asgara writes: Does he or does he not already have your life scripted out before he creates you? If he doesn't then he doesn't know what will happen. I was going to ask you to clarify your previous post, but Phat ended up taking it in that direction anyway. The problem is; there is no before and no after to God. It is all NOW. Make sense? Probably not. Still, it is an accepted theological concept. God's creating, and God's knowing, are simultaneous events. There is no need for a chronological sequence of events or cause = effect reasoning.
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Asgara Member (Idle past 2330 days) Posts: 1783 From: Wisconsin, USA Joined: |
I don't see how that makes a difference....
If it is all "now" to god then it still is an issue of creating knowing what is happening...now or future doesn't matter.
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anastasia Member (Idle past 5981 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: |
Asgara writes: If it is all "now" to god then it still is an issue of creating knowing what is happening...now or future doesn't matter. I could turn this into an endless conundrum, but why can't God in one second set in motion His creation, and know in that very second what the eventual outcome will be, without actually choosing the outcome?
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