|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Summations Only | Thread ▼ Details |
Member (Idle past 5939 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: The Meaning Of The Trinity | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Hi, Delta. Welcome to EvC.
(There's no need to post the same thing in two threads. We'll find ya. ) I'm pretty sure my comments would be off-topic in the other thread, so I'll try my luck here:
Delta writes: The Father, The Son, and The Holly Spirit all together as One...as Jesus said many times... "I and my Father are one" John 10:30 But when Jesus was challenged by the Jews, He said:
quote: In refering to people "unto whom the word of God came" as "gods", how was He distinguishing Himself from them?
Genesis 11:7, "let US go down, and there confound their language." It's obvious God is not talking to angels here How is it obvious?
Jesus fulfilled over 350 prophecies about Himself. Of these, over 105 it would be impossible for anyone else in history to fulfill I'm not even going to touch those so-called "prophecies". Our local prophecy wonks can try to set you straight.
Our universe itself is a three in one trinity. Almost anything can be described in a threefold manner. You could talk about the Trinity of Cats: the Eyes, Ears and Whiskers. You could talk about the Trinity of Ice Cream: Chocolate, Vanilla and Stawberry. That doesn't mean it inherently has a threefold nature.
Can a dog understand the nature of the human-being ?! We don't know. We only assume that they don't understand us.
either the Human-being can understand the infinite nature of God By your logic, then, God can only assume that we don't understand Him. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
|
ICANT writes: What part of an egg is not an egg? The shell, the white, or the yoke. No part of an egg is an egg. No part of a dozen is a dozen. No part of a god is a god. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes: If we chopped Infinity into two parts, would each part be finite? Each part would be finite on the cut end. And if we cut it in three, we'd have two pieces that were infinite on one end and finite on the other, and one piece that was finite on both ends. (Watch the math gurus demolish that one. ) Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
You can do quotes like this:
[qs=Ringo]This is a quote.[/qs] which will look like this:
Ringo writes: This is a quote. or like this: [quote]So is this.[/quote] which will look like this:
quote: You can also use the Peek button in the lower right-hand corner of every post to see how things are done. ------------- I don't see anything in your post that's really about the Trinity. Let's go slowly: How do references to multiple gods indicate a trinity? Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Delta writes: well, if you say multiple...you deny Torah.... Not at all. The Torah has plenty of references to multiple gods:
quote: quote: quote: (and not just in Exodus. ) Yahweh wanted to be the Numero Uno God of the Israelites, but He didn't consistently claim to be the only god.
Only Trinity...only a triune God make sense... What I'm asking is, why does it "make sense"?Why is the magic number three? Why not eleven? The bible must not abnegate itself or wouldn't be God's word The Bible has lots and lots and lots and lots of abnegations. We have a whole Bible Accuracy and Inerrancy forum for that. So it must not be God's word? It must be man's word about God - and man's understanding of God is imperfect. So man makes up ideas like The Trinity that "make sense" to him. Edited by Ringo, : Fixed quote. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Delta writes: Yes....the Torah...when it was written ... was there any Christians or Muslims in the world ? or was only tribes and kingdoms with many gods like Romans and Greeks ?! Well, you brought up the Torah. I only pointed out that it does, in fact, refer to multiple gods.
Because in new testament Jesus said many times : Father...Himself and the Holy Spirit....and not more Does the New Testament say there are only the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Does it say there are no others or does it just not mention any others? Does it say that those three are also one?
You just can't figure the nature of God...just by reading the bible, you just can't understand That's what I'm saying: If you can't understand the nature of God, how can you say His nature is triune?
Well, this issue is the main link to Muslims believe of Mohamed last prophet What do Muslims think of the Trinity? Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Delta writes: But Torah always said that there was only a tru God....just read above If you're going to distinguish between "gods" and "true gods", you're back to the problem of human understanding again. How can you tell who is a "true" god and who is not?
Because He can't deny or abrogate the bible, because He is the same yesterday...today..and tomorrow But that's just what the Bible says - you can't use the Bible to back up the Bible. How do you understand which parts of the Bible are true, if your understanding is imperfcect?
...Apocalypse was always understood as a book apart .. That's a new one on me. Again, the same question, though: How do you know? How do you set the Revelation apart from the rest of the New Testament? It seems to me that you've picked the number three out of a hat and you're dividing everything you see into threes. Why? Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ICANT writes: I was assuming he meant it was impossible for 3 things to be one. That's what I'm saying - it is impossible. I didn't think anybody had such a simplistic idea of the Trinity. I thought the Father, Son and Holy Spirit were supposed to be One, not just three parts fastened together somehow. Frankly, that kind of trinity is a great big "so what?", "who cares?, "why even waste time mentioning it?" Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
tudwell writes: Henotheism is sometimes viewed as a stepping stone from polytheism to monotheism. The question for this topic is: Where does trinitarianism fit on the continuum? As Phat mentioned, many Christians do consider Satan, etc. to be "false Gods", so that smacks somewhat of henotheism. But the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all in the category of "true God(s)", aren't they? I talked about "other gods" because they illustrate our understanding of the nature of "God". Different societies understand their god(s) in different ways - hence, "different" god(s). Trinitarians think they have an understanding of "God" in which there are three (and only three) aspects. My main focus in this thread has been, why three? Why not more? Why not less? Why is Satan excluded from the Trinity? What's the difference between the Father and the Holy Spirit? How can three and one be the same, except as a cliche? If we can't come to a common understanding of how many gods there are, how can we come to a common understanding of how many aspects one god has? Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes: The Trinity is, in my opinion, not a major theological issue. Well, it's the issue of this thread. Your quote draws an interesting distinction between Tritheism and Dualism. My question would be: Why does this "Satan" character have to represent a conflicting superpower? Why not - as many Bible references suggest - see Satan as part of the Godhead? If God is all-powerful, how can the Tempter, the Prosecuter, etc. not be a part of Him? Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
tudwell writes: I guess I should have read the whole thread before replying. No, if it needed clarifying for you, it probably needed clarifying for somebody else too. (My stream of consciousness often changes channels in midpost.) By all means, jump into the middle and ask. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ICANT writes: So you are saying that what I started with was not an egg.It sure turned into 3 different piles, or was that me dreaming? I can cut a pie into three pieces too. Does that make it a "trinity"? I could separate an egg into carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen and "other". Does that make it a "pentity"?
Ringo you have a body, a spirit and a mind, according to Jesus I assume you have all of these. What's the difference between a "spirit" and a "mind"? Are you separating them arbitrarily just to come up with the magic number Three? And even if I am a trinity, how does it follow that God must be a Trinity too? If I was made in God's image, does He have blonde hair and blue eyes? For that matter, is "He" a He or a She? Comparisons between God and me have to stop at one point or another.
According to Jesus God made us Physical (heart), Spiritual (soul) and Intellectual (mind). The way the Bible usually uses the word "heart", it doesn't refer to the physical - it refers to the spirit/mind. So Jesus was actually saying, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy mind, and with all thy mind, and with all thy mind."
Back to my egg: Shell, encompases all, white, surounds, yoke, physical that contains life. It's a cute little story, and it covers your conception of god in a trite little way. But we come back to the limits of human understanding: You can describe God as a "trinity", but that is not necessarily a true reflection of His nature. (Have you given any thought to including the Tempter and the Prosecutor in the Pentity?) Edited by Ringo, : Added a missing "that". Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
And? ringo writes:
Because that would make God Schizophrenic. If God is all-powerful, how can the Tempter, the Prosecuter, etc. not be a part of Him? What you're saying is the equivalent of, "Jeffrey Dahmer could not have eaten his victims because that would make him a cannibal."
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I was refering to your logic. You said that being complete would make God schizophrenic. I say if He is He is. Granted you can argue that He plays all of the roles, but it makes more sense for Him to be good, rather than complete. You seem to be squeamish about the reality of your God. He "must" be good; He "can't" be evil or have anything to do with evil. Yet He's supposedly the Creator of "all seen and unseen". By your math, evil isn't part of "all seen and unseen". Huh?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Bad analogy: God didn't paint pictures of zebras; He created zebras. If zebras are evil, He created evil. If ebola is evil, He created evil. Even if ebola isn't evil per se, if it does evil, He is responsible.
An artist can paint a picture of many zoo animals but that does not make the artist a zebra. Phat writes:
Your point is still wrong, no matter how many times you repeat it.
Get my point?
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024