Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,909 Year: 4,166/9,624 Month: 1,037/974 Week: 364/286 Day: 7/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Vaccines and Autism
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3957 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 1 of 26 (405749)
06-14-2007 5:47 PM


it was on talk of the nation today, and of course since all the research associated says that there's no link and they only have scientists on all the whackos were out saying they should have had experts from both sides.
i really don't want someone on npr that says i shouldn't vaccinate my children because it doesn't actually cause autism but i should get my chakras aligned to prevent whooping cough.
anyways.
a bunch of people were saying how you have to consider vaccines because you shouldn't rule anything out until you've looked at everything. but there have been a ton of studies demonstrating that there's no greater instances of autism in those who have been vaccinated than haven't.
so i thought we could discuss autism and what else might be causing the "increase" in cases.
there was an article released last summer that demonstrated that autism is associated with different development in the anxiety centers of the brain.
it seems to me that twenty years ago i was called "defiant" as i imagine many higher-functioning autistic kids might be having worked with dozens over the last few years (and having a close friend with asperger's who could just be described as 'wiggly and excitable'). so anyways. i have adhd and potentially some other disorder which is masked by various coping techniques i have developed. my friend with asperger's and i are almost the same exact person. down to the buttons. so maybe it's not that more people have autism and maybe it's not that more people are 'aware' and watching for it, but that we are more willing to attribute "bad behavior" to a disorder than to just being a bad seed.
so how about what might be causing it. has anyone looked at other causes? how about prior parental drug use? environmental pollution? we have looked at genetics. most people don't buy that they might be at fault for their own problems. but how about this anxiety thing. what if the onset of autism is contributed to by some traumatic illness. some people whose children seemed to develope autism quickly after vaccination describe severe acute illnesses. what if that might have some contribution to triggering an autistic tendency already there? but if there are more and more cases, what else in human behavior and exposure is being increased? processed foods? formula? smoking?
on a side note, our understandings of developmental disorders are still basic in many ways. it seems to me that we may discover that adhd may simply be the alternate brain function and entirely normal. the other option is that it's on that spectrum and simply part of the same bunch as autism and your label is merely based on which symptoms you pulled out of the great galactic hat. having said that, i consider my "symptoms" to be the most valuable parts of my personality. a cat is not a defective dog.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by crashfrog, posted 06-15-2007 12:19 AM macaroniandcheese has replied
 Message 3 by Larni, posted 06-15-2007 4:52 AM macaroniandcheese has replied
 Message 10 by macaroniandcheese, posted 06-15-2007 7:50 AM macaroniandcheese has not replied
 Message 13 by LudoRephaim, posted 06-15-2007 10:43 AM macaroniandcheese has replied
 Message 18 by scoff, posted 06-15-2007 7:29 PM macaroniandcheese has not replied
 Message 19 by RAZD, posted 06-16-2007 9:16 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3957 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 6 of 26 (405836)
06-15-2007 7:31 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by crashfrog
06-15-2007 12:19 AM


Or is it that disagnoses of autism are simply rising to their natural level as education about autism spectrum disorders spreads among doctors?
that's the question. but i think it's a rise in the number of lazy school teachers. because apparently these are the people in charge of who has a mental problem.
I think I've heard this described as the "hunter/farmer hypothesis."
i think it's simpler than that. people have different personalities.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by crashfrog, posted 06-15-2007 12:19 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3957 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 7 of 26 (405837)
06-15-2007 7:33 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Larni
06-15-2007 4:52 AM


so the 'increase' in percieved 'cases' could be from the fact that the skills that 'touch' of asperger's syndrome can give an individual are in less demand in the modern world and this leaves some folk with fewer roles to occupy in society.
we used to call these people 'eccentric geniuses' i believe.
i don'y buy the anxiety angle one bit however.
i was referring to this article. it's not that it's an anxiety disorder per se, but
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5568609
Typical brains had about 12 million neurons. Brains from people with autism averaged about 1 million fewer.
Amaral says it makes sense that there would be a difference in the amygdala because people with autism tend to be very anxious.
"The amygdala's involved in appreciating dangerous situations in the environment and generating an appropriate response to danger, which is probably fear and escape," He says. "Probably in a pathological state, this leads to anxiety."
Brain-imaging studies have already shown that, in boys with autism, the amygdala develops early and stops growing around the age of eight. In typical boys, the amygdala continues to grow until age 18.
Amaral says it's possible that this early development accounts for the reduced number of neurons later in life.
He says too much early activity in the amygdala also could produce abnormal fears -- which might be an explanation for some of the other problems associated with autism.
so an early development leads to a mishandling of potentially traumatic input, thus a severe reaction to the vaccination (caused by an ordinary allergy or just fear of injection) could be a trigger, but not the cause.
Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Larni, posted 06-15-2007 4:52 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Larni, posted 06-15-2007 7:46 AM macaroniandcheese has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3957 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 8 of 26 (405840)
06-15-2007 7:43 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Jon
06-15-2007 6:22 AM


Re: It's a SCAM!!
thank you for your delightful insight. thanks for solving all of our problems. now go bury your head somewhere before you see someone who actually has autism. it's specifically people like you who make life impossible for those of us with high-functioning neurological issues.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Jon, posted 06-15-2007 6:22 AM Jon has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3957 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 10 of 26 (405843)
06-15-2007 7:50 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by macaroniandcheese
06-14-2007 5:47 PM


articles
btw, here's a few articles from npr.
Cause of Autism Narrowed Down to 100 Genes
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=8926283
Author 'Remaps' Notions About Autism
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7496704
Autistic Brain Has Difficulty Coordinating
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6284914
Asperger Syndrome Explained
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7382362
for those who don't know, asperger's is a spectrum disorder (autistic disorders are described as being on a spectrum, hence those stupid rainbow puzzle bumper stickers) which is typified by autistic behaviors in a person of normal to high intelligence. this of course assumes that people with autism have normal to low intelligence. i think many of them just test poorly. i know it's all anecdotal, but so many of my autistic students did just fine when they could respond physically instead of having to respond verbally. i mean, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to swim, but when a teacher tells you that that child will never do anything you ask and he follows precise instructions on the first time...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by macaroniandcheese, posted 06-14-2007 5:47 PM macaroniandcheese has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3957 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 14 of 26 (405878)
06-15-2007 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by LudoRephaim
06-15-2007 10:43 AM


Re: THe Autistic world
to an off-the-wall idea that autism is the next step in our evolution (homo sapiens autism??).
well. the last big evolutionary step in humans was neurological and if more autistic people (or people with other issues) are capable of living 'normal' lives and reproducing, it could lead eventually to a cumulative change for the mass of humanity. our society is getting to focus so much on work and so little on social interaction (except through devices like internet and telephone) that a cumpulsive brain with reduced social impulses like that in spectrum brains may be a better fit for our new world. so it's not really that far out there.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by LudoRephaim, posted 06-15-2007 10:43 AM LudoRephaim has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by LudoRephaim, posted 06-15-2007 2:55 PM macaroniandcheese has not replied
 Message 16 by LudoRephaim, posted 06-15-2007 3:11 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3957 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 17 of 26 (405962)
06-15-2007 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by LudoRephaim
06-15-2007 3:11 PM


pft.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by LudoRephaim, posted 06-15-2007 3:11 PM LudoRephaim has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by LudoRephaim, posted 06-16-2007 1:23 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3957 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 20 of 26 (406036)
06-16-2007 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by RAZD
06-16-2007 9:16 AM


exactly. but they're not looking at this.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by RAZD, posted 06-16-2007 9:16 AM RAZD has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3957 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 23 of 26 (406066)
06-16-2007 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by LudoRephaim
06-16-2007 1:23 PM


Re: pft...????
it's an onomatopaea for the sound made to discredit a statement or idea.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by LudoRephaim, posted 06-16-2007 1:23 PM LudoRephaim has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by RAZD, posted 06-16-2007 9:16 PM macaroniandcheese has not replied
 Message 25 by LudoRephaim, posted 06-25-2007 10:49 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3957 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 26 of 26 (407255)
06-25-2007 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by LudoRephaim
06-25-2007 10:49 AM


Re: pft...????
i haven't seen that there's any specific recessive gene discussion of this kind of stuff, and as far as i can tell, the shortage of developmental disorders in non-caucasians is due to underdiagnosis, not lack of cases.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by LudoRephaim, posted 06-25-2007 10:49 AM LudoRephaim has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024