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Author Topic:   Descent of testicles.
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 9 of 55 (446822)
01-07-2008 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by MartinV
01-07-2008 9:29 AM


Remember, often there is no purpose.
One thing that we tend to forget is that the filter is "was it good enough to live long enough to reproduce?"
That's it. Was it good enough to live long enough to reproduce? Fini!
Often mutations can result in really dumb traits, pointless traits, ones that make you scratch your head in wonder. But that's just how it is.
At some time in some species some mutation led to testicles descended.
Did those species continue to reproduce?
Was the mutation one that kept the individual from reproducing?
The answer is "No, they reproduced."
And that's it.
The topic title begins with an implied fallacy, that some feature had to confer some advantage. That is simply a false assumption. The way the filter works is, anything goes unless it confers some disadvantage that is so severe that it prevents the critter reproducing.
"Was it good enough to live long enough to reproduce? Yes!"

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Modulous, posted 01-07-2008 10:43 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 13 of 55 (446836)
01-07-2008 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Modulous
01-07-2008 10:43 AM


Re: Remember, often there is no purpose.
That's not right, really. The critter and its descendants have to reproduce at a rate at least the same as the other critters in its deme, otherwise the proportion of critters with the mutation will decrease over time.
Sure, but there is still no purpose and is just the next iteration of the process. As long as they reproduce they continue. If eventually they become so small a minority that they cease to exist, then that is simply the way things went.

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 48 of 55 (447452)
01-09-2008 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by PaulK
01-09-2008 10:17 AM


One other point
Just wanted to ask about one other point.
Modern Theory of Evolution says that species evolve.
I would think that examples such as descent of testicles would actually be a pretty strong supporting evidence that the Theory is correct and that Design or Direction are refuted.
Since in the real world we do NOT see good ideas or effective features show up across species, it seems to me that the idea that species evolve independently is supported. We do not see external testicles on all species, instead we do see external testicles on fairly closely related species.
What we seem to see when we look at lifeforms is that if some feature does not prevent reproduction, if the critter is good enough to get by, it does. If for any reason, some feature provides an advantage in reproduction it will soon out reproduce them critters lacking the feature and so become a dominate trait.
BUT...
nowhere in lifeforms do we find examples of design or direction such as we see in engineered objects.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
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