Were Psychoactive Plants Designed for a Purpose or Just random evolution at work?

Well, the fact that it acts psychotropic to humans, as in having a mind-altering good time, was not the effect, whether by design or by happenstance.Nicotene to the tobacco plant, coca to the cocaine plant, cannabis saptiva to the marijuana plant, opium to the poppy plant, etc, are all poisons to keep slugs, snails, locusts, beetles, etc, from devouring the plant.Its the same thing with certain brightly colored frogs, much like those Quetzal may seen during his treks deep in to the Ecuadorian rain forest. Some Native American tribes have discovered that upon licking the frog, which secretes its neurotoxins, that it will induce in shamans a psychodelic response neurologically.Human beings are much larger and can process these poisons better than smaller creatures, which for them, will kill them quickly. Instead of killing humans, it produces in them feelings associated with drugs.When people say, "Drugs are poison," that's quite literally what they are!The Biblical reference to such drugs is "pharmakia" in the Greek, which is where we derive the English word, Pharmacy. Regardless, it is spoken about scripturally as something to avoid, not to embrace. I have a better question. Why would natural selection produce this symbiotic relationship between plants and humans, since you seem to speak of it in terms of it being purposeful? What are the forces driving it that it would actually be necessary from an adaptational point of reference? I have no idea how much God would be involved in nature and how much he left to happenstance. But I suppose there is that possibility. But answering one question about God often simply leads in to the next. For instance, did God create mescaline with the deliberate intent of having us use it for legitimate, medicinal uses? The next question could very well be, why does disease exist at all? The next question following that could be, well why do we live in the material universe?It could just go on and on. Overall I see so many lucky rolls so as to rule out the total possibility of random chance X natural selection. In the final analysis, all we can do is do the best we can to uncover these eternally difficult questions, and to have spirited debates about it.Because at the end of the day, "I don't know for certain" just might be my answer. Edited by Nemesis Juggernaut, : typosEdited by Nemesis Juggernaut, : typo

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“There is something which unites magic and applied science while separating both from the 'wisdom' of earlier ages. For the wise men of old the cardinal problem had been how to conform the soul to objective reality, and the solution had been knowledge, self-discipline, and virtue. For magic and applied science alike the problem is how to subdue reality to the wishes of men: the solution is a technique; and both, in the practice of this technique, are ready to do things hitherto regarded as disgusting and impious" -C.S. Lewis

I got the impression that the symbiotic relationship he was alluding to between humans and plants that produce toxins, were of the same order as bees and pollinating flowers.I just don't see the evidence to make a legitimate comparison.

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“There is something which unites magic and applied science while separating both from the 'wisdom' of earlier ages. For the wise men of old the cardinal problem had been how to conform the soul to objective reality, and the solution had been knowledge, self-discipline, and virtue. For magic and applied science alike the problem is how to subdue reality to the wishes of men: the solution is a technique; and both, in the practice of this technique, are ready to do things hitherto regarded as disgusting and impious" -C.S. Lewis

How did they "create" a samurai face, as opposed to it simply being an anomaly?Or were you being jocular?

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“There is something which unites magic and applied science while separating both from the 'wisdom' of earlier ages. For the wise men of old the cardinal problem had been how to conform the soul to objective reality, and the solution had been knowledge, self-discipline, and virtue. For magic and applied science alike the problem is how to subdue reality to the wishes of men: the solution is a technique; and both, in the practice of this technique, are ready to do things hitherto regarded as disgusting and impious" -C.S. Lewis

Oh, so he means that by allowing those with anomaly to live, it increases their population because they haven't been killed, and now it becomes fixed in the population?I get it now. Yes, I suppose that would qualify as artificial selection. How so? If they are killing the plants to extract the toxins from them, that would actually be hindering the plants survival. Unless of course you mean that since humans found a way to co-opt the plant, like cannabis saptiva, that humans now grow it as a form of artificial selection.

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Human beings are much larger and can process these poisons better than smaller creatures, which for them, will kill them quickly.

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I was speaking mostly about plants. Sure, there are various snakes deadly to us, jellyfish too, etc. But others, like certain kinds of scorpions, do not have enough toxins to kill an average-sized human where it would kill a field mouse. Belladonnas, though, have been known to kill humans. Though in high school, I remember some students who actually planted some on school grounds and would get high off of them too.

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“There is something which unites magic and applied science while separating both from the 'wisdom' of earlier ages. For the wise men of old the cardinal problem had been how to conform the soul to objective reality, and the solution had been knowledge, self-discipline, and virtue. For magic and applied science alike the problem is how to subdue reality to the wishes of men: the solution is a technique; and both, in the practice of this technique, are ready to do things hitherto regarded as disgusting and impious" -C.S. Lewis

Castor bean extract (ricin) is nasty stuff.An ingenious, if not insidious, ploy was hatched by the KGB when they hollowed out the tip of an umbrella. Inside the umbrella was a tiny ball bearing which had perforations in it to inject ricin in to. This was used to quietly assassinate dissidents once loyal to Moscow.Once the agent had his mark , he would walk behind him and act as if he casually bumped the umbrella against the target's leg. In reality, he fired his ricin dart directly in to the mark's leg.Anyway, I realize that was a tangent but the point was mostly about how nasty ricin is.

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“There is something which unites magic and applied science while separating both from the 'wisdom' of earlier ages. For the wise men of old the cardinal problem had been how to conform the soul to objective reality, and the solution had been knowledge, self-discipline, and virtue. For magic and applied science alike the problem is how to subdue reality to the wishes of men: the solution is a technique; and both, in the practice of this technique, are ready to do things hitherto regarded as disgusting and impious" -C.S. Lewis