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Author Topic:   Biblical Translation--Eden
kbertsche
Member (Idle past 2162 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 59 of 305 (458825)
03-02-2008 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by autumnman
02-25-2008 10:47 AM


Case in point is the translation of Gen. 2:16. In the Heb. Tanakh Gen. 2:16 states, “So he lays charge, yhwh >elohiym, upon the human archetype in regard to saying,'From the whole tree of the garden eat you must eat'.”
Gen. 2:16 conveys the beginning of God’s “command.” However, every English translation of this verse employs the English auxiliary verb “may” when rendering the final clause, "You may freely eat of every tree of the garden." The auxiliary verb “may” is not only completely incongruent with the Heb. verb tzavah=lay charge/command, but it is also completely incongruent with the repetitive verbal clause at the conclusion of the verse, >akol tho>kel=eat you must eat.
The English auxiliary verb “must” is the only accurate translation; "From the whole tree of the garden you must eat." When translated accurately, however, the Deity’s “command” to the human archetype becomes considerably more complex and more difficult to interpret.
The verbs are both the same (qal imperfect) as you note. But the grammatical note I looked at says "The imperfect verb form probably carries the nuance of permission." I'll try to find my Hebrew grammar text to find more info, but this makes sense. Even in English, we say, "you may do such-and-such" (meaning you are allowed to, but you don't have to), and we say "you may not do such-and-such" (meaning you are not allowed to). Same verb form, but the negative carries the connotation of command in one case and permission in the other.
If the sense were as you translate, shouldn't it have used the perfect rather than the imperfect form?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by autumnman, posted 02-25-2008 10:47 AM autumnman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by autumnman, posted 03-02-2008 2:02 PM kbertsche has replied

kbertsche
Member (Idle past 2162 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 77 of 305 (459122)
03-04-2008 1:40 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by autumnman
03-02-2008 2:02 PM


Re: Heb. tense
It is my understanding that if the Eden Text is being rendered as "historical prose" it is the "vau conversive" that changes the "imperfect tense" into the "perfect tense".
If the Eden Narrative is being rendered as a "Wisdom Text {an allegory)" then the "imperfect tense" denotes that the "Command" is still being issued; the "Command" is being issued to the individual ">adam=human being/entity" who is currently reading the text. That ">adam" would be you or me or both of us at this point in time.
I think you are referring to the "vav consecutive" or "preterite" form. This is a standard narrative form, relating consecutive events. It follows a fixed pattern. The first event is described with a verb in the perfect form. All subsequent events start with vav ("and") with an imperfect verb appended. These imperfect verbs actually have the sense of perfect verbs and are translated as perfects.
In Gen 2:16, the verse starts with a vav-consecutive, "and then the Lord God commanded ...". But the command itself is not in the vav-consecutive form, so the imperfect tenses in the command remain as imperfects. So I don't see that this affects the sense of the command itself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by autumnman, posted 03-02-2008 2:02 PM autumnman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by jaywill, posted 03-04-2008 7:34 AM kbertsche has seen this message but not replied
 Message 80 by autumnman, posted 03-04-2008 10:57 AM kbertsche has seen this message but not replied

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