Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,902 Year: 4,159/9,624 Month: 1,030/974 Week: 357/286 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Does the evidence support the Flood? (attn: DwarfishSquints)
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 764 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 196 of 293 (470488)
06-11-2008 8:08 AM
Reply to: Message 193 by LucyTheApe
06-11-2008 5:15 AM


Re: Timeline of the flood
Just say the earth split open at some point at its mantle.
This vaporised the ocean for 40 days or so which melted the ice
and was also responsible for the rain.
No I'm not, I'm using the laws we already have, rationally.
Could you show me how these to statements can me made to fit together, given the fairly well-known tendencies of plants and animals to die at temperatures over boiling? Even gopher wood would tend to weaken after a 40-day boil, don't you imagine?
You aren't operating rationally.You're Making Stuff Up.

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by LucyTheApe, posted 06-11-2008 5:15 AM LucyTheApe has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by LucyTheApe, posted 06-11-2008 8:59 AM Coragyps has replied

  
LucyTheApe
Inactive Member


Message 197 of 293 (470501)
06-11-2008 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 195 by RickJB
06-11-2008 7:46 AM


Re: Timeline of the flood
RickJB writes:
But if there was a global flood the entire planet would be at the bottom of the ocean!
The entire planet would be under water not at the bottom of the ocean.
RickJB writes:
Any material suspended in the water would have the potential to be deposited anywhere across the surface of the globe, hence a homogenous layer of silt.
Any material that is suspended in the water would have the potential to fall, any further movement would require other forces.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by RickJB, posted 06-11-2008 7:46 AM RickJB has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by RickJB, posted 06-11-2008 9:21 AM LucyTheApe has replied

  
LucyTheApe
Inactive Member


Message 198 of 293 (470507)
06-11-2008 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 196 by Coragyps
06-11-2008 8:08 AM


Re: Timeline of the flood
Could you show me how these two statements can mbe made to fit together, given the fairly well-known tendencies of plants and animals to die at temperatures over boiling? Even gopher wood would tend to weaken after a 40-day boil, don't you imagine?
[My corrections]
Ice tends to melt above 00C. The 10000C or so that would superheat the water would be localized.
If you put your hand in front of a steaming kettle, you will burn your hand; if you move it away just a little, its not hot at all.
You aren't operating rationally.You're Making Stuff Up.
What is wrong with my rationale?
I'm making up a scenario to use as a model, what's wrong with that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Coragyps, posted 06-11-2008 8:08 AM Coragyps has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by Coragyps, posted 06-11-2008 4:51 PM LucyTheApe has not replied
 Message 218 by obvious Child, posted 06-11-2008 6:43 PM LucyTheApe has not replied

  
RickJB
Member (Idle past 5019 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 199 of 293 (470510)
06-11-2008 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 197 by LucyTheApe
06-11-2008 8:36 AM


Re: Timeline of the flood
Lucy writes:
The entire planet would be under water not at the bottom of the ocean.
I was speaking metaphorically - "the entire globe would lie beneath an 'ocean' of water". The water has to cover all the Earth's mountain ranges, does it not?
In any case you're just splitting hairs - "under water" was, of course, what I meant to convey.
Lucy writes:
Any material that is suspended in the water would have the potential to fall, any further movement would require other forces.
"Falling", as you put it, is perfectly capable of laying deposits. We see no global flood deposits, end of story.
Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by LucyTheApe, posted 06-11-2008 8:36 AM LucyTheApe has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 200 by LucyTheApe, posted 06-11-2008 11:23 AM RickJB has replied

  
LucyTheApe
Inactive Member


Message 200 of 293 (470574)
06-11-2008 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 199 by RickJB
06-11-2008 9:21 AM


end of story
end of story
It's not the end of the story. Demonstrate why there should be a
single homogeneous layer of sediment or concede that a flood was possible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by RickJB, posted 06-11-2008 9:21 AM RickJB has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by RickJB, posted 06-11-2008 11:55 AM LucyTheApe has replied
 Message 244 by Nuggin, posted 06-14-2008 1:51 AM LucyTheApe has not replied

  
RickJB
Member (Idle past 5019 days)
Posts: 917
From: London, UK
Joined: 04-14-2006


Message 201 of 293 (470585)
06-11-2008 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 200 by LucyTheApe
06-11-2008 11:23 AM


Re: end of story
Lucy writes:
It's not the end of the story. Demonstrate why there should be a single homogeneous layer of sediment...
Just get yourself a Geology textbook - it's all in there.
A large body of water will hold vast amounts of material in suspension and/or solution. When gravity overcomes any other forces acting on the material it sinks to the bed of the body of water. Sedimentary rocks like Sandstone begin their formation in this way.
Try it yourself, put a small portion of fine sand into a glass of water and stir. Leave it to settle and see what happens - it isn't rocket science.
...or concede that a flood was possible.
Er, no.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by LucyTheApe, posted 06-11-2008 11:23 AM LucyTheApe has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by LucyTheApe, posted 06-11-2008 1:00 PM RickJB has replied

  
LucyTheApe
Inactive Member


Message 202 of 293 (470598)
06-11-2008 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 201 by RickJB
06-11-2008 11:55 AM


Re: end of story
Just get yourself a Geology textbook - it's all in there.
Why would I want to get myself a geology text book? So I can learn to conform, and not have to think for myself?
Try it yourself, put a small portion of fine sand into a glass of water and stir. Leave it to settle and see what happens - it isn't rocket science.
Ok, now take your glass of water add a mixture of all minerals, ores, rocks, bones and tip it out down your driveway. Do we end up with a homogeneous layer of silt? No.
Just give me some convincing evidence that disqualifies a global flood.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by RickJB, posted 06-11-2008 11:55 AM RickJB has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 203 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-11-2008 1:10 PM LucyTheApe has replied
 Message 204 by Coyote, posted 06-11-2008 1:16 PM LucyTheApe has replied
 Message 211 by RickJB, posted 06-11-2008 2:39 PM LucyTheApe has replied
 Message 219 by anglagard, posted 06-11-2008 10:14 PM LucyTheApe has not replied
 Message 230 by deerbreh, posted 06-13-2008 5:08 PM LucyTheApe has not replied
 Message 246 by Nuggin, posted 06-14-2008 1:56 AM LucyTheApe has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 203 of 293 (470602)
06-11-2008 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by LucyTheApe
06-11-2008 1:00 PM


Re: end of story
Why would I want to get myself a geology text book? So I can learn to conform, and not have to think for myself?
Wow. You'd rather be a non-comforming ignoramus than an edjucated "conformist"!?
To me, that is just crazy.
Just give me some convincing evidence that disqualifies a global flood.
The lack of a genetic bottleneck.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by LucyTheApe, posted 06-11-2008 1:00 PM LucyTheApe has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 206 by LucyTheApe, posted 06-11-2008 1:48 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2135 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 204 of 293 (470604)
06-11-2008 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by LucyTheApe
06-11-2008 1:00 PM


Re: end of story
Just give me some convincing evidence that disqualifies a global flood.
OK, that's easy.
I am an archaeologist, and in the areas I work there is no erosional discontinuity, nor are there flood sediments or other evidences of a flood, at the appointed time of 4,350 years ago.
On the other hand, there is continuity across that time period. There is continuity of fauna and flora, sedimentation, human cultures, and mitochondrial DNA. None of these would be possible if there was a global flood 4,350 years ago.
The same kind of evidence is found by archaeologists working in other parts of the world.
Conclusion -- no global flood 4,350 years ago no matter what you believe. (See tagline.)

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by LucyTheApe, posted 06-11-2008 1:00 PM LucyTheApe has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by LucyTheApe, posted 06-11-2008 1:38 PM Coyote has replied

  
LucyTheApe
Inactive Member


Message 205 of 293 (470606)
06-11-2008 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by Coyote
06-11-2008 1:16 PM


Re: end of story
Coyote writes:
I am an archaeologist, and in the areas I work there is no erosional discontinuity, nor are there flood sediments or other evidences of a flood, at the appointed time of 4,350 years ago.
Who appointed the time?
Have you found any erosional discontinuities within the last 10 thousand years?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by Coyote, posted 06-11-2008 1:16 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 208 by Coyote, posted 06-11-2008 1:53 PM LucyTheApe has not replied
 Message 247 by Nuggin, posted 06-14-2008 2:01 AM LucyTheApe has replied

  
LucyTheApe
Inactive Member


Message 206 of 293 (470607)
06-11-2008 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 203 by New Cat's Eye
06-11-2008 1:10 PM


Re: end of story
Catholic Scientist writes:
Wow. You'd rather be a non-comforming ignoramus than an edjucated "conformist"!?
To me, that is just crazy.
So it's more important to conform and fill your head with garbage, than it is to think for yourself.
What happened to the real scientists?
The lack of a genetic bottleneck.
Genetics will shed light on human ancestral history.
Edited by LucyTheApe, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-11-2008 1:10 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-11-2008 2:00 PM LucyTheApe has replied
 Message 210 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-11-2008 2:16 PM LucyTheApe has not replied
 Message 220 by Adminnemooseus, posted 06-11-2008 10:53 PM LucyTheApe has not replied
 Message 248 by Nuggin, posted 06-14-2008 2:07 AM LucyTheApe has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4988 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 207 of 293 (470608)
06-11-2008 1:48 PM


Surely the question should be...
Is there ANY evidence from c. 4400 years ago to support the Genesis Flood narrative?

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2135 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 208 of 293 (470609)
06-11-2008 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by LucyTheApe
06-11-2008 1:38 PM


Re: end of story
Coyote writes:
I am an archaeologist, and in the areas I work there is no erosional discontinuity, nor are there flood sediments or other evidences of a flood, at the appointed time of 4,350 years ago.
Who appointed the time?
Have you found any erosional discontinuities within the last 10 thousand years?
Who appointed the time? Biblical scholars. Here are some references for the date of the global flood:
For erosional discontinuities google "channeled scablands" and do some reading.
These are features that are two to three times older than the date ascribed to the global flood, and they are pretty well understood for area of flood coverage and time period. And, a global flood would have wiped away this evidence.
Summary: no global flood at the appointed time, 4,350 years ago.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by LucyTheApe, posted 06-11-2008 1:38 PM LucyTheApe has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 209 of 293 (470610)
06-11-2008 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by LucyTheApe
06-11-2008 1:48 PM


Re: end of story
So it's more important to conform and fill your head with garbage, than it is to think for yourself.
Garbage? No.
But what about the lack of a genetic bottleneck discounting the flood?
I see you avoided that...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by LucyTheApe, posted 06-11-2008 1:48 PM LucyTheApe has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by LucyTheApe, posted 06-11-2008 2:55 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4451
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 210 of 293 (470613)
06-11-2008 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by LucyTheApe
06-11-2008 1:48 PM


Re: end of story
LucyThe Ape writes:
So it's more important to conform and fill your head with garbage, than it is to think for yourself.
If you read a geology book, you would, at least, know what you were arguing against.
What happened to the real scientists?
You can bet that the real scientists have read most or all of the books in their field, especially the ones they disagree with. They conduct studies in the field and lab and every one of them is trying to discover something new.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
You can't build a Time Machine without Weird Optics -- S. Valley

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by LucyTheApe, posted 06-11-2008 1:48 PM LucyTheApe has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024