thanks for your thoughtful reply...and your right. I am a clergy involved in an approach to Christianity (Unity) that is very different and has been condemned by much of the more traditional, conservative elements of the Christian religion. So words like salvation and Kingdom of Heaven/God have a different meaning that I try to communicate in my work and writings. Although as soon as I identify myself as a follower of Jesus, most people, because of their experiences with fundamentalist, orthodox of conservative Christianity make certain assumptions about where I am coming from. However, there are many people who approach the Bible and Christianity from a non-traditional, even non-religious point of view much like mine. Mathew Fox, John Shelby Spong,
This resonates pantheistically with me, which, to the best of my knowledge, is incompatible with orthodox Christianity. I concur that life is a creative manifestation, though I think that the creativity is manifest in reality by the conscious entities themselves, and not imposed upon them by some outside creative "puppet-master" of sorts as ordinary Christian teachings would have it. To what extent do you agree/disagree?
Like you I don't believe in a creative presence that imposes from the outside like a puppetmaster of sorts but, I also don't beleive that single cell organisms make conscious choices to re-organize or reproduce themselves in ways that will result in more complex organisms. I do think that there is a creative presence or principle that makes itself known through responses or strategies - gives birth to itself - and that it has a directional component to it..increased complexity for the purpose of expanding relationships of mutual enhancement - love(and I realize that is a kind of religious belief) I think that human beings are able to make choices that have profound effects on life (and our own evolutionary future) in ways that are unprecedented in the consciouness of all other known forms of life.
I don't think that consciousness itself is a recent product of evolution, though that which we commonly identify as "human consciousness" may be. Analogously, matter itself is not a recent evolutionary development, though certain directed configurations of it may be. Furthermore, I don't think that natural selection applied to mental elements like attitudes and beliefs is a recent product of evolution. I think that the natural selection of those mental elements has been carried out alongside that of the physical elements all along. Its only now that we've begun to recognize it, and for that reason it seems to be an emerging process.
I agree that the natural selection of mental elements has been a part of evolution...the zebras mental choice to run or not run... However, human beings are called to participate at an unprecedented level in selecting ideas, attitudes and beleifs that will govern their responses to life...Humans are called evaluate, judge and select responses in ways that are unprecedented. Mythologically that might be represented in the Bible as eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (some choices are better than others)which means that might have been a step in evolution, not an original sin.
In my opinion, this has always been the next step, and the next step, and the next step after that ad infinitum. I don't envision a state of completion that represents the fullest extent to which individuals can "align" themselves with "the Creative Principle." The present state can always be surpassed by the next, in other words -- such is the nature of real creativity.
I agree and
on to salvation... Salvation in Christianity is, of course, escape from this life and eternity in a paradise called heaven. My perspective on my own salvation and for our species is to find a better way to respond to life that will lead to greater satisfaction, meaning and peace..to be conscious of ways to interact that are mutually enhancing ...and, personally, to know myself as an element of this creative presence (one with God as Jesus described himself) in that "Truth" to know that the very essence of who I am is indestructible.
What can die is my "Sense of Self" that's governed by ideas, attitudes and beleifs that are proving not to be adaptable...Like creating nuclear weapons beleiving that will serve the human experience in the long run... Thus, I don't believe our species is immune from extinction and salvation would be to gain a new sense of self that would be adaptable and avoid extinction...
Thanks ( I wrote this in a hurry) I'm new to this...how do you highlite the person's remarks you are replying to...like you did in your last response to what I wrote?
Barry
[This message has been edited by Barryven, 07-29-2003]
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