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Author Topic:   Earth of Genesis 1:9
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 37 of 112 (503580)
03-20-2009 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Modulous
03-20-2009 9:14 AM


Re: Do the Splits
Hi Mod,
Modulous writes:
It has absolutely nothing to do with Genesis 10:24, for example which talks about Arphaxad having a child called Salah and Salah having a child called Eber. And indeed you think it is completely divorced from 10:20-24 which is talking about people having children. Absolutely unrelated to. According to you, these three verses are not related to one another at all!
Only that they are in the same group of generations.
The definition of Peleg's name is just that a definition of his name.
These verses are not a story.
They are statements of facts.
Modulous writes:
You would say 'but God can do just about anything' and they would say 'does that include distributing animals around the world?'
But what scripture would they use?
Oh I know, they don't need one.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Modulous, posted 03-20-2009 9:14 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Modulous, posted 03-20-2009 9:46 AM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 39 of 112 (503582)
03-20-2009 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Peg
03-20-2009 9:18 AM


Re: Land Mass
Hi Peg,
Peg writes:
there certainly would have been and it would most likely have been in the beginning when God began his creative 'days'
Glad to see you agree that the land mass was in one place at one time.
Peg writes:
but after the Flood, the earth would have been dramatically changed from that point on and if the land was still in one place before the flood, it certainly wasn't afterward.
And what do you base this statement on?
Have you ever read about the Bay of Fundy?
The difference from high tide to low tide is 55' the max on record is over 68 feet. It hasn't washed away yet.
There is nothing in the Bible that states the earth was divided in the days of the flood that I can find.
Do you have anything?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Peg, posted 03-20-2009 9:18 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Peg, posted 03-21-2009 12:11 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 42 of 112 (503586)
03-20-2009 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Peg
03-20-2009 9:44 AM


Re Peleg
Hi Peg,
Peg writes:
the post flood world would already have been split apart, divided by the huge amount of water that it received during the flood.
Are you basing this on the YEC flood model?
Or,
Are you basing it on the Bible?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Peg, posted 03-20-2009 9:44 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Peg, posted 03-21-2009 12:38 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 43 of 112 (503587)
03-20-2009 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Capt Stormfield
03-20-2009 9:47 AM


Re: Land Mass
Hi Capt,
Capt Stromfield writes:
Science tells us that most of the earth's landmass was in one place many millions of years ago.
I have read a lot about Pangea.
But how do you know it was millions of years ago?
Capt Stormfield writes:
No one questions geology as currently understood, ie. that the continents were once contiguous. We are pointing out that the Bible does not say that.
I know you are telling me the Bible I have studied for the last 60 years does not say God gathered all the water into one place leaving something that looks like my avatar.
But the fact is that is exactly what Genesis 1:9 and 10 says.
Meaning it agrees with geology that the land mass was in one place at one time. But as far as you and other are concerned the Bible can not be correct on anything because that might mean it is correct on other things.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Capt Stormfield, posted 03-20-2009 9:47 AM Capt Stormfield has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Capt Stormfield, posted 03-20-2009 10:36 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 46 of 112 (503603)
03-20-2009 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Capt Stormfield
03-20-2009 10:36 AM


Re: Land Mass
Hi Capt,
Capt Stormfield writes:
See message #29. The consensus of those who study this question is widely published and easily accessible. If you have issues with it, go to a meeting. This thread is about your interpretation of language, remember?
Since when did majority opinion counts as evidence.
If you want to answer for Granny then give me the evidence for Pangea being 200 millions years ago.
I am not going to make your argument for you.
Capt Stormfield writes:
Another evasion of my direct question re the biblical description as it could be applied to the Pacific ocean. At what point would you consider it to be a fair assumption on my part that you are willfully prevaricating?
If the Pacific ocean was all the water in the world, there would be one big piece of land mass.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Capt Stormfield, posted 03-20-2009 10:36 AM Capt Stormfield has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Capt Stormfield, posted 03-20-2009 2:00 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 48 of 112 (503613)
03-20-2009 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Capt Stormfield
03-20-2009 2:00 PM


Re: Land Mass
Hi Capt,
Capt Stormfield writes:
I'm not requesting you make an argument. I'm allowing you to display your ignorance.
But you are the one supporting the assertion.
So state the evidence for the assertion.
If you don't know then just say that is what I read. I will accept that.
Capt Stormfield writes:
, not "let the land be gathered together".
The land is together whether it is visible above the water or is covered with the water.
The last time I went diving there was land down there under the water.
It was just wet land. Not dry land.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Capt Stormfield, posted 03-20-2009 2:00 PM Capt Stormfield has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 59 of 112 (503705)
03-21-2009 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Granny Magda
03-20-2009 5:47 PM


Re: Land Mass
Hi GM,
Granny Magda writes:
What do you care? You have already made it plain that you are not interested in evidence.
I don't remember saying I was not interested in evidence.
In Message 8 I said:
Sure I believe it happened.
Why do I need any evidence?
I put just as much confidence in the papers called the Bible as you put in a paper written by Green, Penrose, Hawking or others.
So I have my evidence you just won't accept it.
In the OP I concluded Genesis 1:9, 10 to say all the water was in one place and the land in one place.
In Message 24 You stated:
Yes there indeed was a time when the Earth's land was in one single mass. That time was 250 million years ago. That's about 249.9 million years before humans existed.
So you agreed that at one time the land mass was all in one place at one time.
I asked for evidence that your land mass was 249.9 million years earlier than mine.
In Message 29 Capt Stormfield answered for you.
Capt Stormfield writes:
Last Two Hundred Years of Geology, I'd like you to meet ICANT. ICANT, Last Two Hundred Years of Geology. Odd you hadn't bumped into each other before now, but there you go.
I wanted a little more explanation but never got one.
Then you finally answer with:
Granny Magda writes:
I got it out of a Christmas cracker. I found it written in a toilet cubicle. The voices in my head told me.
I have a little more respect for you as we have exchanged words on many occasions.
So I will state what the 250 million years is based upon and you can correct me if I m wrong.
According to the theory of plate tectonics the continents are shifting x distance each year. Extrapolating backward using this distance we can conclude that 250 million years ago there was one land mass.
We have already agreed that at one time there was one land mass.
Can we agree that:
That land mass has been divided into the present day continents?
Man has been scattered over the face of the earth?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Granny Magda, posted 03-20-2009 5:47 PM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Granny Magda, posted 03-21-2009 11:05 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 60 of 112 (503713)
03-21-2009 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Peg
03-21-2009 12:11 AM


Re: Land Mass
Hi Peg,
Peg writes:
my statement that the earth would have been dramatically changed after the flood is based on the evidence.
And that evidence is:
Peg writes:
The preflood world must have had less water then it did after the flood.
Why must it have less water before the flood?
If it had less water before than after where did all the excess water come from?
I propose the water was there all the time, and the location of that water just got changed.
Some was in the air and some was in the ground. All was put on the face of the earth and it covered the face of the earth.
If the land mass was all in one place how many feet above sea level did it have to be?
That would determine how much water was needed to cover it.
Peg writes:
And if anyone is confused about where the water came from see the creation account on day two.
After the firmament was placed between the uplifted water and the waters beneath the firmament there was no dry land.
There was enough water on the planet earth to cover all land.
Genesis 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry [land] appear: and it was so.
There was no dry land until the waters were gathered together in one place.
That means all land mass was covered with water.
Therefore there was no problem with there being enough water to cover the face of the earth.
Peg writes:
So the pre flood earth would have been very different to the earth after the flood. With so much water now covering the surface,
Why did there have to be a difference?
It had already been covered with the same water.
Peg writes:
So in a world that was already divided by floodwater's, there would have been no need to cause further division of land. The only likely explanation is that the 'division in the days of Peleg' refers to the babel account.
You have not established how the flood waters divided the land mass into the different continents.
I can only see 2 possibilities for the continents being where they are today.
God divided the land mass like you would a jigsaw puzzle and placed the continents close to where they are today.
OR
The continents got to where they are today over the last 250 million years.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Peg, posted 03-21-2009 12:11 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Peg, posted 03-23-2009 5:49 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 61 of 112 (503714)
03-21-2009 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Peg
03-21-2009 12:38 AM


Re Peleg
Hi Peg,
Peg writes:
It is not based on the bible because the bible does not go into such details. I am basing it on what we know of the earth and of what we know of flooding and how flooding changes the surface of the land.
You can base what you believe on assumptions, your reason, and notions if you want too.
But I believe the Bible gives us enough information to know that the land mass was all in one place at one time and the inhabitants of the earth was scattered over the face of the earth and that the land mass was divided into the continents we have today.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Peg, posted 03-21-2009 12:38 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Michamus, posted 03-21-2009 8:35 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 64 by Peg, posted 03-23-2009 5:22 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 66 of 112 (503909)
03-23-2009 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by Granny Magda
03-21-2009 11:05 AM


Re: Land Mass
Hi GM,
Granny Magda writes:
I don't remember saying I was not interested in evidence.
In Re Water (Message 8) I said:
Sure I believe it happened.
Why do I need any evidence?
You said that in response to my request that you provide evidence for your absurd claim. You used that comment to weasel out of doing so.
Actually I made this statement in response to a statement you made.
Message 3
Granny Magda writes:
Of course, you are not only suggesting that the Bible makes this claim, but you think that it actually happened, isn't that right? If this is true, then you must have a shit-load of evidence right? Right?
Remember, the evidence not only has to explain why your hypothesis is correct, it also has to deal with the evidence for plate tectonics and an old Earth, etc. I have a funny feeling that the Earth would explode if the continents were moved that quickly.
Nowhere do you ask for evidence.
My question was why do I need evidence?
I have the evidence the Bible gives me and that is sufficient for me.
In Message 24 you said:
Granny Magda writes:
Yes there indeed was a time when the Earth's land was in one single mass. That time was 250 million years ago. That's about 249.9 million years before humans existed.
My Evidence:
Genesis 1:9, 10 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
Genesis 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
The Hebrew word translated seas is singular not plural.
The Bible says the water was in one place.
That would mean the land mass was in one place.
Scientific verification.
Wikipedia writes:
Gaea, meaning Earth in Ancient Greek) was the supercontinent that existed during the Paleozoic and Mesozoic eras about 250 million years ago, before the component continents were separated into their current configuration.
That says the land mass was in one place.
That says the land mass was separated into the current configuration.
Wikipedia writes:
The single enormous ocean which surrounded Pangaea is known as Panthalassa.
That says all the water was in one place.
That should refute your two island hypothetical.
You can find more on Pangea Here, Here, and Here.
Do you deny the land was in one place?
Do you deny the water was in one place?
Granny Magda writes:
Where is your evidence of human habitation of Pangea? This is your theory. It is up to you to provide evidence for it. If you have none, you must be dismissed offhand as just another crank.
No my theory (as you call it) is what the Bible says.
The Bible says the land mass was in one place.
The Bible says the land mass was inhabited by humans.
The Bible says the humans were scattered over the face of the earth.
The Bible says the land mass was divided.
This is what I put forth in the Op.
Science agrees that the land mass was in one place at one time.
Science seems to agree the land mass has been divided.
Science does not agree humans inhabited the single land mass as Pangea was supposed to have been 250 million years ago.
Science seems to agree that humans have been scattered over the face of the Earth from one location with the out of Africa theory.
So we have a time problem.
In Message 24 you said:
Granny Magda writes:
That time was 250 million years ago. That's about 249.9 million years before humans existed.
In message 27 I asked upon what you based that assertion.
In Message 49 you stated:
Granny Magda writes:
I got it out of a Christmas cracker. I found it written in a toilet cubicle. The voices in my head told me.
So I ask again, upon what do you base your assertion that was 249.9 million years before humans existed?
Granny Magda writes:
Now, unless you think that lystrosaurus is any less than millions of years old, this puts Pangea quite out of reach of human contact.
What difference does it make whether they are over one million years old or one billion years old. At one time there was no ocean at all and they could roam anywhere they pleased.
Granny Magda writes:
By the way, the final break-up of Pangea was about 185 mya. That's where you need to be looking.
Did one of them little voices in your head tell you that or do you have something a little more substantial. I would love to read it.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Granny Magda, posted 03-21-2009 11:05 AM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Granny Magda, posted 03-23-2009 12:10 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 67 of 112 (503911)
03-23-2009 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by Michamus
03-21-2009 8:35 PM


Re: Peleg
Hi Mich,
Michamus writes:
Still waiting on your reply to the rest of my post [Message #28] ICANT.
Sorry but I am having a hard time finding Hebrew Lexicons that give flown together for the collection of the waters, and eruption from the sea for the land appearing.
But I am still looking.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Michamus, posted 03-21-2009 8:35 PM Michamus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Michamus, posted 03-26-2009 10:13 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 68 of 112 (503913)
03-23-2009 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Peg
03-23-2009 5:22 AM


Re Peleg
Hi Peg,
I am glad to see we agree on some things.
Peg writes:
I just disagree with you that the division happened AFTER the flood. I believe the 'days of Peleg' is a reference to the division of the languages rather then of the land.
You are welcome to disagree with any of what I have said.
As far as the lands coming together you see the prediction for the future HERE Technologies | The world's #1 location platform.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Peg, posted 03-23-2009 5:22 AM Peg has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 70 of 112 (503915)
03-23-2009 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Peg
03-23-2009 5:49 AM


Re: Land Mass
Hi Peg,
Peg writes:
the earth must have had less water then before the flood because as the bible says, the 'flood gates of the heavens were opened' and the world became flooded by water. The waters were said to come from 'above'
Previously it wasnt flooded, then it was... The floodwaters are still here, previously they were not.
Are you saying those waters could not return to their original location?
So there should be no problem for God to find enough water to flood the earth today if he decided to do so?
Peg writes:
But how did the water drain off the earth? Eventually it did because the bible tells us that after a length of time the Ark came to rest on a mountain. So obviously the waters were able to drain into the much larger oceans then were previously there.
I have questions about the mountains in Noah's day. I know there was mountains when the writer was writing, but was they there at the time of the flood?
Peg writes:
it wasnt the same water because the bible tells us at Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on this day all the springs of the vast watery deep were broken open and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.'
Sure it was the same water. God did not manafacture water.
The rains that came down was lifted up from the waters below. The waters from below came from the water that filled the voids when the land mass was uplifted.
So why wouldn't it be the same water that had covered the earth?
Peg writes:
so the waters came from the heavens....waters that previously were not on earth.
But the waters that came down was put up in Genesis 1:6.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Peg, posted 03-23-2009 5:49 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Peg, posted 03-23-2009 11:55 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 71 of 112 (503916)
03-23-2009 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Granny Magda
03-23-2009 12:10 PM


Re: I'm done
Hi GM,
Granny Magda writes:
If anyone else feels that they might be able to crowbar some sense into the dormant organ that is ICANT's brain, feel free to try. I have had enough.
You could have tried using a convincing argument rather than all the insults you have typed out.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Granny Magda, posted 03-23-2009 12:10 PM Granny Magda has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by shalamabobbi, posted 03-23-2009 3:15 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 81 of 112 (504070)
03-24-2009 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by Peg
03-23-2009 11:55 PM


Re: Land Mass
Hi Peg,
Peg writes:
Gen 8:13 "Now ...it came about that the waters had drained from off the earth"
Clearly the bible writer described the waters as 'draining off the earth' as opposed to being transported in any other method.
First off I don't know what English prevision text you found this in. The Hebrew text in 8:13 has no word that is translated draining off.
The Hebrew word חךב transliterated charab is translated dried up.
The LXX has subsided.
Water evaporates into the atmosphere.
Water goes into the ground, our aquifer.
Peg writes:
likely there were mountains before the flood but they probably were not as high as they are today for the reason that the weight of the water likely changed the landscape. The crust of the earth is relatively thin and with enough weight, it could have been pushed upwards or downwards by the force of the water.
The Hebrew word translated mountains has the primary meaning of hill. But at the time of translation there were many mountains, which probably influenced the translators. Especially as they did not see the land mass all in one place.
If Mount Everest, the tallest point on earth (29,035 feet), was set in the Mariana Trench there would still be 7,166 feet of water above it.
The pressure at that depth is around 18,000 lbs per square inch. So if that pressure is not popping up mountains constantly, what makes you think the water pressure did during the flood?
Peg writes:
all three of the above indicate that the water came from the sky, not the earth. If the water came from the earth, it would have enveloped the earth like a swelling tide, but the bible does not say this is what happened.
Is Genesis 7:11 missing in your Bible?
Genesis 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
What do you think the fountains of the deep was?
And yes the flood was like the tide at the Bay of Fundy, it rises 55 feet every high tide. Just something God left behind so we can know water can rise an awful lot without doing catrosphic damage.
As to floodgates being opened a quick search did not turn up floodgates in the text. So where did you get it from.
The windows of Heaven was opened and it rained for 40 days.
Peg writes:
So im sure you are correct in believing that the earth was covered in water and the dry land was bought together in one place, but you must consider the genesis account about the waters being separated on the 2nd day to create an expanse happened before the dry land was bought together on the 3rd day.
The land mass was still covered with water after the waters of Genesis 1:6, 7 was uplifted.
When the land mass was uplifted that would have created voids which would have been filled with water.
There is presently enough water in the mantel that if extracted to our present water would cover Mount Everest much more than the fifteen cubits of Genesis 7:20.
Peg writes:
so if you know that there were waters above, why are you wondering where the flood waters came from?
I have no doubt about where the flood waters came from.
The windows of Heaven opened and it rained for 40 days.
The fountains of the deep opened up and the sea rose very rapidly.
You can only put so much water in the heavens without building the hammered out dome that some claim's the Bible supports, which it does not. Or you must go to Vail's canopy theory.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Peg, posted 03-23-2009 11:55 PM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Peg, posted 03-25-2009 4:20 AM ICANT has replied

  
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