Divinity of Jesus

but as you can surely see from each of those translations i quoted, Jesus was not claiming to be God.If you really want to reason that the Jews thought he was saying he was God, then that may well be, but the writers of the gospel certainly did not believe Jesus was saying he was God. They wrote it that he said he was 'Gods Son'big difference if you ask me.

The fact that he said he and the father were 'one' does not mean they were the same person. He also said his disciples could become 'one' with both God and Christ...John 17:20"I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word; 21in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us,"Being 'one' does not mean they are the same 'one' person. It means they are in unison with each other, they are at one in purpose, they are one in cooperation.

possessed in english means :
"To have as a quality, characteristic, or other attribute" (free online dictionary)created in english means :
"To cause to exist; bring into being." dictionary.comThey are completely different meanings, im sure you can see that. If the hebrew writers wanted to imply that God 'possessed' and not 'created' why didnt they use a word that meant 'possessed'?Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

ok John10:10

its good to know that to follow Christ means to believe in a doctrine introduced 3 hundred years after his death...i'll keep working on it but i dont like my chances.

Is it fair to use a poem by way of evidence when stating such a serious claim?

yes, true, however Gnostiscm came from non christian sources. The babylonian gnostics attributed hidden meanings to Bible numbers for instance...they introduced non scriptural teachings after their conversion to christianity. The apostles pre-warned about this.Paul wrote to Timothy in 1Timothy 6:20"O Timothy, guard what is laid up in trust with you, turning away from the empty speeches that violate what is holy and from the contradictions of the falsely called "knowledge." 21For making a show of such [knowledge] some have deviated from the faith." Pauls words here show that false ideas were creeping into the church from very early on. John also wrote about false teachers at 2 Peter 2:1,3
"...there will also be false teachers among you. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects...Also, with covetousness they will exploit you with counterfeit words."If Paul and John are referring to the gnostic teachings, then there is no reason to assume that the gnostics had anything accurate to teach. If the idea of the trinity came about as a result of the gnostics, then the idea must be false.Even some in the catholic church admit the non christian teachings...Roman Catholic cardinal John Henry Newman, Essays and Sketches:

quote:

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"The phenomenon, admitted on all hands, is this:That great portion of what is generally received as Christian truth is, in its rudiments or in its separate parts, to be found in heathen philosophies and religions. For instance, the doctrine of a Trinity is found both in the East and in the West; so is the ceremony of washing; so is the rite of sacrifice. The doctrine of the Divine Word is Platonic; the doctrine of the Incarnation is Indian."

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I think this quote speaks for itself.

what is the definition of God?

i know its hard to give the definition of 'God' when you believe that Jesus is Godthe answer doesnt add up.

its been posted plenty of times in other threadsJosephus. 1st century Jewish historian mentions Jesus brothers.

quote:

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"[Ananus the high priest] convened the judges of the Sanhedrin and brought before them a man named James, the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ."

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In Annals, Tacitus wrote:

quote:

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"Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus."

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Here Tacitus not only names Jesus as the founder of the religion, but goes on to say that Pontius Pilate had executed him during the reign of Tiberius...Jesus was no mythical character...he was viewed as a real person by the people at the time.

Tacitus did use the name of Christ, he used the Latin pronounciation and called him 'Christus'but dont let that get in the way of a good conspiracy hey lol .

Josephus was born 37 CEthat means that when he was a young writer, the Apostles were still alive. Thats contemporary enough for me.

ok you win, it would appear notBut I do consider the bible writers as contemporary with Jesus, and the testimony they give is a compelling one.

i was referring to NT writers! but you knew thatI have no doubts about who wrote the gospels. Im quite confident in that and no amount of modern scholarly speculations will change my mind. The things they come up with are crazy..like Jesus and Mary Magdalene had a child LOL

Oh i know its fiction!however Dan brown based his book on other non fiction writers such as Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh, and Henry Lincoln who wrote the 1982 non-fiction book The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail where Jesus and Mary are said to have had a child.i think the idea came from gnostic writers and posibly books of the apocrypha but i'd have to research that a little more to be sure where the idea came from.Heres the wiki bloodline page with many references to non fiction books that promote the idea as fact.
Jesus bloodline - Wikipediaof course you are right. For me it is a matter of faith because I was not around when the books were being written. I cannot say i've ever seen any miracles or spoken to any eye witnesses, so Yes, its a matter of faith.what i do know for sure is that those who did witness these things wrote down their testimonies and provided us with all we need to believe their words. Besides that, there have been many NT prophecies that have been fulfilled in our own time which adds to my faith.