Creationists Turn

I think what sideliner is trying to get at is that you can't infer design without a known designer, and you can't infer a designer from design. You have to have independant evidence for a designer before you can infer design.After all, intelligent design doesn't imply the Christian god. It could be some of the Hindu ones, or Allah, or the gods of Zoroastrianism. Or not even gods at all - space aliens, or something. Or humans from the future who went back in time to start life (and setting up one hell of a paradox.)And for that matter, if you're going to talk about intelligent design, you'll have to be prepared to defend against obvious examples of unintelligent design.

Says who? That's not a "fact" as far as I've heard. Cite your source, please?

What are the odds? 1/1, I'd say.You have this idea that it's hard to put two things in orbit. Nothing could be further from the truth. Gravity is universal, all objects are attracted to all other objects. Any two objects with sufficient velocity will fall into orbit around each other. It would be astronomically unlikely to never see two objects in orbit of each other.Maybe you'd like to think a little harder about probability before you try to prove the existence of god with it. And before you tell people "to think about it", before you've done any thinking yourself. Nope.

Might that be because evolution is biology, and the questions you're asking are cosmology? Does the phrase "division of fields" mean anything to you?But again, it's all just empyy assertion. He says that binaries can't form "by accident" but there's no evidence that's the case. It's just his opinion.[This message has been edited by crashfrog, 09-01-2003]

Well, the two you've quoted. Now, I'm no cosmologist, and I haven't asked any, but I do read about astrophysics and stuff. And I've never heard anybody say that there's anything unexplainable about binary systems.So far you haven't presented anything that would prevent two bodies from orbiting each other on their own. Is there some mechanism that you think prevents it?

But the sources you've quoted only offer opinion. Opinion isn't evidence. Your sources don't give any more evidence than you do.If you're going to say that binary objects are impossible, then all orbits are impossible. If it's your opinion that no objects come into orbit by themselves, well, I'll need to see evidence of God's own Hand putting them into place, right now. Because binary objects are being formed even now.

Out in space. Where else?Ok, I realize that's a non-answer. Unfortunately I have to go to work now so I can't look them up right now. Maybe somebody else could hit google for us?

If I can just say, I don't find arguments along the lines of "if you're so right, how come you argue about it so much?" very useful. When you think about it, it's an unfalsifyable "heads I win, tails you lose" theory.

I guess I equivocate faith and belief. Perhaps I do so in error? Can you help me understand the difference? I understand the difference between faith and knowing of course, as well as the difference between faith and trust.