Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,912 Year: 4,169/9,624 Month: 1,040/974 Week: 367/286 Day: 10/13 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Gene duplication = information!
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 4 of 11 (546834)
02-14-2010 6:13 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Dr Adequate
02-13-2010 11:22 PM


Dr Adequate writes:
I don't see why this should convince any creationist, and after all this blather about "information" is their thing, not ours. Let them define it.
I agree about the blather part, but "information" already has a definition. As with creationist definitions of evolution where the only way they can appear to have a leg to stand on is by mis-defining it, the same thing is true of information.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-13-2010 11:22 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-14-2010 7:39 AM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 6 of 11 (546845)
02-14-2010 8:22 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Dr Adequate
02-14-2010 7:39 AM


Hmmm - wasn't expecting that answer. Letting creationists redefine information seems inconsistent with your position over in Why creationist definitions of evolution are wrong, terribly wrong. about not letting creationists redefine evolution.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-14-2010 7:39 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-14-2010 5:02 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 8 of 11 (546885)
02-14-2010 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Dr Adequate
02-14-2010 5:02 PM


Moderator Back for Just One Message
Dr Adequate writes:
Well, evolution has a clear-cut definition already. But I think anyone can come up with their own metric of "information". There may be more than one way to do so --- Shannon information and Kolmogorov complexity, for example.
I think that both evolution and information have clear-cut definitions, and that anyone can come up with their own evolutionary mechanisms or information metrics that we can assess. Where information and evolution differ is that a layperson can be persuaded which definition of evolution properly applies within biology without too much difficulty, but this is not true for information. Convincing laypeople that meaning has no place in information is as difficult as convincing them that entropy isn't what makes rooms messy. Which makes a lot of sense since information and entropy are flip sides of the same coin.
--Percy
PS - Kolmogorov complexity is not another information metric. It combines Shannon information with computational concepts to form one approach for measuring algorithmic complexity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-14-2010 5:02 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-14-2010 6:35 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 10 of 11 (546903)
02-14-2010 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Dr Adequate
02-14-2010 6:35 PM


Re: Moderator Back for Just One Message
Information is one message of a set of messages. Shannon information is my metric.
Concerning KC, Kolmogorov defined functions for both complexity and information. The functions are not identical. If you're thinking of Komogorov's function for information then I won't quibble, but Kolmogorov's function for complexity isn't really a measure of information.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-14-2010 6:35 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-14-2010 7:59 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024