Articulating In The Debates; The Proper And The Improper.

You really just like the he said, she said part don't you?

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Can you be more specific about what you're asking for? If you're asking me to quote you where you're deciding for others when they can use profanity, I've already done so, two posts ago. If you're asking me to quote you doing something else, this is going to get a bit ridiculous. Why can't you simply remember what you've already posted? That would be a lot more convenient for both of us.

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You'll have to go back and read. You didn't take the time to answer when I asked, I'm not going to go back and figure it out for you. As for two posts ago, I responded to that. I was stating my position, not deciding for anyone. You haven't explained how stating my position is deciding anything for anyone. This is a debate forum. We take a position. What anyone gleans from the debate is up to them.

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But I did do so. Again - the Milgram experiment proves that most people determine what is right and wrong based on cues from those around them. How much clearer could it possibly be? If you don't understand how it does that, then it's because you don't know what the Milgram experiment is, and you should just say "I don't know what the Milgram experiment is" instead of being so ridiculously vague. And if you don't know what the Milgram experiment is, you should do your own homework and look it up on Wikipedia.

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And I did. As I said in Message 157: You provided no confirmation or correction and still don't wish to apparently. So if I assume I did find the correct study which is an experiment to research the effect of authority on obedience, I still don't see what it has to do with this discussion or any discussion of cues from those around us. Please refrain from implying I'm too ignorant to see it. That's the fundamentalist path.

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There are a wide variety of considerations people may make about who they choose to continue conversing with, some legitimate and some not, and profanity is not somehow unique in that regard. Profanity isn't any more likely to make people decide to stop talking with you than any other aspect of your person or communication.

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Thank you Captain Obvious.

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PurpleDawn writes:

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I was trying to look at whether profanity in an adversarial situation helps or hinders discussion since you said you used it for emphasis.

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Right - you're trying to decide for other people whether they should or should not use profanity.

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Like I said - if you're asking me where you keep deciding for other people whether or not they should use profanity - it's there, in the message box where you're typing in these replies. Yeah - right there.

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How is that deciding for other people any more than any other debate on this forum?When you asked this question concerning HFCS in your High-Fructose Corn Syrup - the Controversy thread were you trying to decide for other people or trying to understand through discussion?

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Until you can actually remember what you've previously said on the issues we're addressing, we're at a standstill. I'm not prepared to serve as your own memory. You have to use it yourself. I can't help you.

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Good dodge. I know what I wrote, but your comprehension of what I wrote is the issue. I have no way of matching up what I wrote with what you think I wrote. I'm not going to guess because you wouldn't address it or confirm it if I got it right, as evidenced by the ones you did finally state. Message 104 You stated: Insisting that your preferences are the only ones that matter is the definition of being childish. I said I didn't, which means if you disagree you have to show me where you see this happening. You didn't respond. Message 130 You stated: You've tried to give examples of the "emotionless" speech you think the debate should engender, but no speech is emotionless.I said I didn't, which means if you disagree you have to show me where you see this happening. You didn't respond.Now I've responded to what you feel is me deciding for others. I've disagreed and I have asked that you explain how my sentence is making a decision for anyone. Now we'll see if you respond or continue to avoid explanation.I agree, we are at a standstill. I don't understand why you're comprehending my posts the way you are. Until you can explain why the words I use lead you to the conclusions you've provided, there's nothing more I can add.

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Your position is that you know when to swear, when not to, and anybody who swears when you think they shouldn't is, by definition, doing it wrong.

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That's what I mean about you deciding for other people - your position is that you've already decided when it's appropriate to use profanity and when its not, and anybody who does it any differently is perforce wrong.

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No that isn't my position

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There was nothing to correct. I never stated that the Milgram experiment was about debate situations. The Milgram experiment is about what people think is right and wrong in the face of someone around them, someone they may view as an authority (although not all versions of the experiment involved authority) telling them what is right and wrong.

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If you haven't understood the Milgram experiment in the context of people deciding what is right and wrong, then you've not understood the experiment.

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You've not understood the experiment, apparently. Go back and do your homework - not all versions of the experiment involved an authority, and it's not that people simply obey the authority - they actually change their minds about whether it's appropriate to administer lethal electric shock to another person simply for failing to answer trivia questions, because everyone around them seems to have determined that it is appropriate.

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So there are other versions, but you still don't want to provide a link to the specific study you have in mind or clarify what that has to do with what I've said about profanity. So people adjust their views concerning what's right and wrong. That's old news. Make your point.

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Then by all means, correct my comprehension. Where have I failed to correctly apprehend your meaning?

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I already did. You didn't respond. I linked to them in the previous post. Do you play this game in the science debates?

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Both of those messages have responses from me which quote the relevant material from your posts.

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No they don't.

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It's the part where you say "this is what you should and shouldn't do."

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Except that I haven't said that.Very disappointing. I'm done with the he said, she said. Unless you have something that actually addresses what I've said, we're done.Edited by purpledawn, : No reason given.

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I don't understand what this refers to. We don't have competing testimony about events that only the two of us were privy to, so I don't see how we could possibly be in a "he said, she said" situation. We're talking about remarks and arguments that you have made on the record, which are instantly available to anyone who chooses to go back and read them.

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I apologize, I've used the phrase incorrectly. I'm referring to the fact that our discussion has devolved into the "no I didn't, yes you did" realm. We are no longer discussing the topic.Edited by purpledawn, : No reason given.

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Sometimes there seems to be no balance, that it's either an all or nothing deal.

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In our daily lives most people don't act or talk exactly the same in various social situations as they do at home.It's usually considered inappropriate to discuss gross things at the dinner table. If my family is not bothered by such a discussion, we will discuss such things at the dinner table. That changes when we have company over, we go out to a restaurant or to a party.People do the same with offensive language. I seriously doubt that the brilliant person you describe would have presented his findings with profanity, mild or otherwise. People also aren't afraid their minds will turn to mush. We use exaggeration to make points also and sometimes that isn't appropriate around people who don't understand that we are exaggerating. The point is that all things aren't considered appropriate in all situations and cultures.In this type of written forum, we can sit at home behind our computers naked or in PJ's and picking our nose or farting till the cows come home; but our words are going to the public arena. We don't have to have on makeup, shave, or fix our hair; but when we leave the house and go into the public arena we put on appropriate attire for the occasion, make ourselves presentable, and we refrain from picking our noses or farting (loudly anyway if we can help it ). We also adjust when company comes over to our house.Not everyone is offended by profanity on this board, but some are. If one person asks me to refrain from profanity or even a specific level of profanity when conversing with them (not everyone else), are they really asking too much in a public arena? Maybe they can tolerate mild profanity, but not the sexual profanity or overuse of such. The choice is mine, whether to comply or not. It's the same when we go out in public.On the other hand we can have people who are offended by the act of being asked to adjust, whether it is profanity, grammar, slang, style, behavior, etc. IMO, those who are least offended will usually comply. Courteous behavior shows respect for others.

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And also, I wish more people would learn to go by what people actually say rather than how they sounded.

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That's the kicker. In this medium we don't have the audio or visual. No tone or inflection or body language. Just the words. The reader applies the tone, inflection or body language. When you read posts, do you read with no emotion? How do you decide which emotion to use?I don't believe anyone sits behind their computer and thinks in monotones.Disclaimer: My argument above does not imply that I know how to behave perfectly in all situations.

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It totaly depends on the culture you are in.

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Exactly!The members of this board cover various cultures, religions, genders, ages, and beliefs.Even within each of these groups there are variations.