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Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Right Wing Cartoonist vs Reality | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Coyote writes:
quote: So small a minority that when it comes time to take a vote, they vanish. There's a reason that the only Republican to vote against DOMA was the gay one. There's a reason that only one Republican voted for the climate change bill when it was in committee and only eight that voted for it when it made it to the floor. There's a reason that only seven Republicans voted against the defunding of Planned Parenthood.
quote: How does one get used to something that doesn't exist? Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Taz writes:
quote: Ahem. When was the last time you heard GOProud advocating for gay rights? They didn't support DADT repeal, they're against the repeal of DOMA, they don't support ENDA, they invited Ann Coulter to come and tell them they're all a bunch of faggots. Exactly what is the "advocacy" they do? Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Coyote writes:
quote: BWAHAHAHAHA! Oh, that's so precious! You really believe, that don't you? If the media were truly "made up of lefties," how the hell did Gore not win the presidency? How is it that despite the fact that there was a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, there was practically no movement on any of the Democratic agenda? Why is it that most Democratic congresscritters are called out for being "liberal" but most Republicans aren't? Why is it that on all of the Sunday talking-heads shows, the guests are overwhelmingly Republican? That when there is a solo guest, it is almost always a Republican? That when there are panels, there are more conservatives than liberals? Why during the healthcare debate, there wasn't a single advocate for single-payer or universal coverage on any of the Sunday shows? This is a serious question. What on earth makes you think the media is "leftie"? Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
RAZD writes:
quote: Incorrect. They claim to be so but every time they get into power, they destroy the budget with irresponsible spending. It's why since the modern economy began after WWII, the economy has always done better under Democrats than under Republicans. If it were not for the interest alone on the Reagan/Bush debt (with a Republican-controlled Senate Finance Committee run by Bob Dole, if you will recall), the budget would have been balanced in 1994. It's why the Great Depression happened. It's why, in 1937 when the Republicans got back into power in the Congress and started complaining about "irresponsible spending," the economy collapsed again. It's why the Reagan/Bush recession was the worst since the Great Depression. It's why the Bush II recession topped that. Clinton cut more public-sector jobs than Reagan created and yet still Clinton's total job-creation numbers trounced Reagan (in fact, all Democratic presidents since WWII have had better job-creation numbers than all Republicans.) Who do you think it was that said, "Deficits don't matter"? It wasn't a Democrat. Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Omnivorous writes:
quote: Um, did you completely miss the 2000 election? Where on earth do you think "Gore said he invented the Internet" came from? Why do you think the media has adopted the Fox-style "just asking" nonsense: "Is Obama the Antichrist?" That was the cover of Newsweek. The Tea Party was an astroturf group created by Fox News and was treated as legitimate by the rest of the media with not a single player pointing out the nonsense of "Keep your government hands off my Medicare!" What on earth makes you think they don't "snarl and spit when they say Obama or roll their eyes when they interview Democrats"? Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Taz writes:
quote: No, I think it's just your personal sample isn't very good. The Dinah Shore Weekend is this weekend in Palm Springs. The Gay Games (apparently, "Special Olympics" isn't a problem for the IOC but "Gay Olympics" will get you sued) was in 2010 in Cologne and in Chicago in 2006. The fact that you know there are gay sports bars out there is proof that you are suffering from a sampling bias. Have you considered the possibility that gay people don't watch sports in the same way you do? That the reason you don't talk to gay people about it is because they don't relate to it in the same way that you do and thus there isn't anything to talk about? There is, for example, the trend that most of the gay athletes who have come out have done so in individual sports such as tennis and golf rather than team sports such as football and baseball. Those that do come out in team sports tend to do so only after they have been long retired and no longer have to worry about getting kicked off the team and losing their job. And, of course, there's the old joke that boxing is the gayest of all sports: Two men half-naked in a ring, wearing silk shorts, fighting over a belt, the winner gets a purse, and they do it while wearing gloves.
quote: Indeed. The problem isn't the generalization. It's the justification. It's thinking that one's personal life is sufficient to generalize to the population at large. It's very easy to do. You, just now, showed that despite the fact that you know you're wrong, you're still going to insist upon your personal experience as applicable to the group as a whole.
quote: The question then becomes, what is "enough"? Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Rahvin writes:
quote: Do you seriously not understand how the Speaker of the House gets put in that position? It isn't like there was a lottery and this time, the 8th District of Ohio won and got to have its Representative get elevated to Speaker. No, there is an election within the House among the Representatives as to who is going to be the Speaker. The caucus gets together and nominates their candidate. Boehner is Speaker because the rest of the Republicans in Congress wanted him to be Speaker. Why would they actively choose a man who paid bribes on the floor of Congress to be in charge?
quote: You can take a look at voting records. How many Republicans voted for the health care bill?How many voted against DOMA? How many have ever voted for ENDA? How many voted for the climate change bill? How many voted for stricter CAFE standards? How many voted against the PATRIOT Act? How many voted against the war in Iraq? How many voted against the prescription drug benefit? How many times must we see a more than 99% conformity among Republicans before we come to the conclusion that it isn't "confirmation bias"? There's a reason the cliche is "Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line."
quote: Well, when William Jefferson did it, he was kicked out, prosecuted, and sentenced to 13 years in prison. That seems to me to be a bit of a difference to becoming Speaker of the House. Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Coyote responds to me:
quote: Except they didn't. If Congress had simply rubber-stamped the budgets that Reagan has submitted, his debt would have been more than $50B MORE than what actually was spent. Congress cut Reagan's budgets. You may have a claim against the final budgets that were passed (such as the ridiculous "supply-side" fantasy that tax cuts pay for themselves...even Bush I called it "voodoo economics" until he was on the ticket and had to support it), but they were better budgets than what the Republicans wanted. And you seem to have forgotten: Who was in charge of the Senate Finance Committee for the first six years of Reagan's term? C'mon...you did read my post because I mentioned his name. That's right: Bob Dole. The Republicans were in charge of the Senate. If there were "plenty of blame to go around," why does so much of it land on the Republicans?
quote: Because that logic equates jaywalking with murder. Both are against the law, but they are not equivalent. You do understand the fallacy of the false equivalency, yes? All politicians may be bad, but some are worse than others. You don't have to be a Democrat in order not to be a Republican. I'm not. Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Coyote responds to me:
quote: What about it? Are you seriously claiming that the coverage of the 2010 election was an example of "leftie" media? How the hell did healthcare not get overwhelming support with single-payer, universal coverage being paid for with increases on the upper income brackets if the media were "leftie"? Why is the cap on Social Security not gone? Why is it only being paid for with payroll taxes instead of including capital gains? How did "death panels" ever make it into anybody's consciousness? Why on earth does anybody still know who Sarah Palin is? How the hell did any Republican get elected in 2010 given a "leftie" media? What, precisely, is your point regarding the 2010 election and "leftie" media? Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Taz responds to me:
quote: No. Because I've actually studied this (that's what you get when you study theatre and have to costume.) There are distinct regional differences in how people dress and in significant places in the country, jeans are not worn. For example, "business casual" (yes, I know that's not jeans...go with me for a second) means something very different on the East Coast than on the West. In New York, you're wearing a jacket. In LA, it's just a button-down shirt. In New York, it's dark slacks. In LA, it's khakis. Even in casual wear, there are distinct regional differences. Now, I will agree that jeans are very popular in the US, especially among the younger generations, but the American population is too large and diverse for such a statement to be solidly true. It's more of a "pop-culture" trend. Such trends are significant and indeed, we have seen major shifts in casual wear in the US compared to even 50 years ago. But if you look at department stores today, while there is the jeans section, more of the floorspace is dedicated to other styles of clothing. It's why "sportswear" is a bigger commodity. Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined:
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Rahvin responds to me:
quote:quote: ...and then proceed to focus on Democrats. Nice try. This isn't about the Democrats. We can deal with what a fucked up party they are in another thread. This is about the Republicans. Not a single Republican voted for health insurance reform. Only one Republican voted against DOMA...the gay one.
quote: Then you are willfully choosing to disavow that which you have directly acknowledged as true. This isn't about the Democrats. It's about the Republicans. Time and time again, the Republicans vote en masse against the best interests of the country. Remind yourself: This isn't about the Democrats. Any attempt to point out that there are Democrats that voted for these nasty things, too, is nothing but a distraction. We are simply looking at whether or not the Republican party as it actually functions, as opposed to how it likes to position itself, is what we might call "evil." And so far, the overwhelming majority of instances shows only the tiniest fraction of Republicans ever voting in favor of things that will benefit the country. There is a bill pending before Congress right how that will strip food stamps to any family where there is a worker on strike. Who do you think put it forward? Republicans. Who do you think is trying to strip funding for Planned Parenthood and has zeroed out all Title X funding (which provides pregnancy services to low-income women)? Republicans. Who are these Republicans who are somehow "moderating" the rest of them?
quote: What does that have to do with anything, Franklin? You seem to be claiming that I am being subject to selection bias, but your own research into this showed that the Republicans overwhelmingly supported these very bad laws. If a coin comes up Heads 100 times out of 100, it doesn't really matter that I'm only recording Heads, now does it?
quote: No, there weren't. Your eally are doing everything you can to deny what you researched on your own. The best example you could come up with was an 18% dissent while every other example was no better than 2%. You have the same logic as Republicans: If you can get one Democrat to support you, that makes it "bipartisan." If you can get one Republican to say no, then that's "significant numbers."
quote: To quote Breathed: If two million people do a dumb thing, it's still a dumb thing. You're arguing the fallacy of ad populum: That because something is popular, that makes it right. It doesn't matter how many people try to justify the unjustifiable. It's still wrong.
quote: Yes, they were.
quote: Yes, they were.
quote: Yes, they were.
quote: No, they weren't. They were simply correct. It takes more than being correct to be good. Being good would have been passing a bill making it a federal offense to spend any money on fighting in Iraq, strengthening citizen rights rather than stripping them in the face of people screaming in fear, and legalizing same-sex marriage.
quote: There were plenty of people running. And if the guy you vote for doesn't stand for what you want, why are you voting for him? Let's not pretend that there is some great angst among the electorate.
quote: Incorrect. You're the one trying to do that. Again, remind yourself: This isn't about the Democrats. It is only about the Republicans. They have shown themselves to be incapable of governance under any circumstances. On top of their general incompetence when it comes to governance (really...why would anybody elect somebody to run the government who has a fundamental philosophy that government is bad?) they have latched onto the strategy of opposing the Democrats no matter what: When unrest broke out in Libya, they were screaming at Obama to impose a no-fly zone. And not less than two weeks later when he did, they started screaming that it was an impeachable offense for Obama to do so. So exactly who are these "other" Republicans that don't go along with this?
quote: You're trying to pull a Nader, pretending as if there is no difference between the parties. You really think we would have gone to war in Iraq if Gore were President? There's a good chance that Sept 11 would never have happened in the first place given than Bush deliberately ignored Clinton's security advisors who were literally begging and pleading for him to pay attention to Al Qaeda.
quote: Huh? "Single"? The Republicans have shown that on every issue, they are on the wrong side. How can anybody vote for them for any reason? You don't have to be a Democrat in order to not be a Republican. Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
I realize it's been a month, but I've been busy.
Rahvin writes:
quote: That may be what you think you're talking about, but that isn't what you're saying. You're trying to argue popularity makes right and it doesn't. Just because a bunch of people do something wrong doesn't make it less wrong.
quote: Except he is. You're equivocating on the word "exceptional." You are trying to pretend that we're talking about popularity rather than substance. The evil is "exceptional" due to its depravity and idiocy, not because it is rare. Just because two million people do a dumb thing, it's still a dumb thing.
quote: Yes to both. You seem to think there is a dichotomy here and there isn't. If everybody in society is exceptionally evil, that doesn't make the evil any less exceptional. The popularity of an evil act does not change it in any way. It is still exceptionally evil. You are equivocating.
quote: And this is your second logical error. You are trying to play "a pox on both your houses" when your own investigation into the subject matter shows that the two parties were nowhere near the same. The Republicans voted in lock-step. The Democrats had much greater diversity. But by your logic, the mere fact that there were a significant number of Democrats who supported the war makes them equivalent to the Republicans. That simply isn't true.
quote: (*blink!*) You did not just say that, did you? A group of people unified in support of an exceptionally evil act is equivalent to a group of people who are only marginally in support of that act? Do you really think things would have been the same had there been any real debate on the subject? You do recall that there were no guests against the war on any of the Sunday talk shows, yes? That nobody ever got to hear any significant pushback about the "intelligence", yes? You do recall that Bush tried to talk about the uranium back in his speech in October before the State of the Union but that it got pulled out because it couldn't be verified...only to have it show up in the State of the Union despite being still unverified, yes? How many people know that on the day Bush announced hostilities in Iraq, the inspectors were destroying some missiles due to their range being beyond treaty specs and were literally begging Bush to stop and let them do their job? Do you really think that if the Republicans were more like the Democrats, it still would have been inevitable that we would have gone to war in Iraq?
quote: See, there's that "pox on both your houses" act again. And again, you seem to forget that we're not talking about the Democrats. We're talking about the Republicans. You're the one who talked about "moderate" Republicans. Well...where are they? Why is it Republicans routinely vote en masse? We can get to the Democrats and their inabilities in another thread. This is solely about the Republicans. Give us a name. Name a single "moderate" Republican. Olympia Snowe? Susan Collins? Have you seen their voting records? Snowe killed healthcare. We need a name. You claim there are "moderate" Republicans. Name one. Just one. Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Tram law responds to me:
quote: Wikipedia is not a source. Try again. Why? Take a look at their claim:
Yet the Rockefeller Republican label is sometimes applied to such modern-day politicians as Senators Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins of Maine. As I pointed out, neither Snowe nor Collins are moderates. They are staunchly conservative. Take a look at their voting records. Snowe killed healthcare reform. They talk like they aren't lock-step conservatives, but their rhetoric is immaterial. The only thing of any importance is their voting record and they are solid conservatives. Same for the rest of them. Arlen Specter? You do recall that he left the Democratic party for the Republicans and the only reason he left the Republican party is because he wasn't right-wing enough and new he would never survive a primary. The political system in the US has shifted further and further to the right since the 80s. Reagan couldn't get elected as a Republican these days. Hell, Nixon couldn't get elected as a Republican. Nixon indexed Social Security to inflation and instituted SSI. He created the EPA and OSHA. Those programs could never get passed today with current Republicans. Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Coyote responds to me:
quote: And we trust them why? You do recall that the ACU was involved in a blackmail scandal involving FedEx, yes? As is typical, such surveys distort the concept of "conservative" and "liberal" in order to ensure that whoever the target-du-jour is, they can be described as the "most liberal" or "most conservative" as required.
quote: Perhaps. Perhaps the opposite is also true: You are so far to the right that everything looks liberal to you. I should point out that the current conservative regime has been screaming "SOCIALISM" at the mere suggestion that we return the tax rates back to what Reagan had. So if Reagan is a socialist under current conservative standards, then I don't think I can trust them when they claim Snowe and Collins are "moderate." Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Modulous responds to me:
quote: By looking at her actual voting record, not what conservative organizations would say.
quote: By actual votes on things. The problem with using lobbying groups claims about voting records is that they routinely alter their metrics so that whoever is the target-du-jour can be declared the "most liberal" or "most conservative" as required.
quote: Irrelevant. You're looking at it from the wrong direction: Yes, most Democratic members of Congress (both House and Senate) voted for DOMA. But we're not talking about the Democrats. We're talking about the Republicans. Any attempts to say, "But the Democrats do it, too!" is naught but distraction. Question: How many Republicans voted against DOMA. Hint: How many gay Republicans were there in Congress at the time?
quote: You mean she voted against an amendment that would never pass in the first place. Real courage there.
quote: Oh really? She voted against DADT repeal saying it needed to be studied more. It was only after it was a done deal did she finally flip.
quote: No, she doesn't. She's gone along with her party 85% of the time in the last session. And most of the times she didn't, it was on procedural issues. How does that make her "moderate"? Ethanol subsidies, budget, health care, DREAM act, Bush tax cut extensions, warrantless wiretapping of Americans, immigration reform, Iraq and Afghanistan wars, estate tax, Patriot Act, bankruptcy, class-action lawsuits, Alito, Roberts, Bolton, she's with them all the way. Now, she did go against the party with regard to free trade, marriage equality, S-CHIP, FDA, Lily Ledbetter, START, and the final DADT, but that is hardly proof that she's a moderate or commonly goes against her party. Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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