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Author Topic:   Why Do People Steal?
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 166 of 270 (642779)
12-01-2011 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by Phat
12-01-2011 2:29 PM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
I feel the same ire towards wealthy trustafarian children of the upper middle class.

...

My Dad fought World War II and came home, working honestly and diligently to give his kids a chance at a better future


This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Phat, posted 12-01-2011 2:29 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2203 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


(1)
Message 167 of 270 (642780)
12-01-2011 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by Phat
12-01-2011 2:29 PM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
Phat writes:

Because I've earned my position in life through hard work and a decent, honest family

Being a union laborer in a grocery store? I did that at 16 when I bagged groceries, my first (taxable) job. You became a union grocery store employee though hard work? really? The damn union made me join, even though I only worked for $4.25/hour and worked 10-15 hours a week (for gas money and car insurance), I had to pay the same union fees as the old guy who started working there before I was born, who worked his way up to butcher, and worked overtime every-week, and acted like a boss. I learned about the BS that is a Union before I ever got out of high school.

Phat in post 155 writes:

Then we employees, belonging to a labor union, negotiated our wages with an uncaring corporation who would just as soon pay some noobs $8.00 an hour to do badly what we do well.

Wait a minute.

Phat in post 139 writes:

I grew up privileged. My father came from a poor farm family, joined the navy and helped win World War II, then came home and went into business with my Uncle selling houses. They made a fair profit on each house

So which is it: are you a blue collar hard working union guy, who hates upper middle class trustifarians?
Or
Are you a privileged guy who had well off parents?

Maybe it is just me but your last few posts seem rather contradictory.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Phat, posted 12-01-2011 2:29 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 925 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 168 of 270 (642781)
12-01-2011 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by Phat
12-01-2011 2:29 PM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
Because I've earned my position in life through hard work and a decent, honest family...and I can't respect or even stand someone who hustles their way to the top...be they lower or higher economic class initially

What about someone born into a shit life of drugs, violence and crime... Doesn't their shitty life start earn them the right to huste for theirs?

You used the 'thug hustla' because that's who YOU see take advantage of the system. You could have used trust fund kid or many other examples, but you didn't.

You also use drug dealing in your example of someone who isn't earning an honest living. But how so? They buy and sell a product to an already existing market. Where does the dishonesty come into play?

I say if I gotta play the game by the rules, everybodymust do likewise...or lock em up and/or shoot em!

What rules? The rules of business? First, that is a cut throat game where everyone is out to fuck everyone. So I don't get where a drug dealer is being any worse than a banker. Or how, say, the Mafia is any worse than a loan company.

In other words, why are you taking a higher than thou attitude toward people just trying to earn a living in the same manner as you?

You think because you follow certain bullshit laws you are more honest than them?

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Phat, posted 12-01-2011 2:29 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by Artemis Entreri, posted 12-01-2011 3:35 PM onifre has not yet responded
 Message 170 by Phat, posted 12-01-2011 5:11 PM onifre has responded
 Message 174 by NoNukes, posted 12-01-2011 7:35 PM onifre has responded

    
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2203 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 169 of 270 (642784)
12-01-2011 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by onifre
12-01-2011 3:21 PM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
word.

keepin it real.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by onifre, posted 12-01-2011 3:21 PM onifre has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11569
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 170 of 270 (642793)
12-01-2011 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by onifre
12-01-2011 3:21 PM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
Artemis writes:

So which is it: are you a blue collar hard working union guy, who hates upper middle class trustifarians?
Or
Are you a privileged guy who had well off parents?

I am both. My parents were not well off...we were solidly middle class, but by no means wealthy. There was a time in this once great country when one could work hard and even with no higher education be able to retire comfortably. That time has passed.

My gripe concerns people who tear the system down. Who are greedy and out only for themselves.

Onifre writes:

What about someone born into a shit life of drugs, violence and crime... Doesn't their shitty life start earn them the right to hustle for theirs?

And not pay taxes? Thats the least they could do is give something back so that those of us who are honest don't have to carry the burden of an enormous national debt and inevitable tax increases on our old backs.

Perhaps I am bitter. The way that I grew up, I should have made it in life. It was largely my own fault that I didn't. Drugs and addiction problems plagued me, and I only now am recovering from them. Perhaps that's why I hate drug dealers. (I also hate casinos, but that's another topic)

The labor union was a solution for me in 1989. I joined and found myself finally making better than minimum wages. As long as an employee was honest and reasonably ambitious, they would always have a job. This is no longer true.

Onifre writes:

You think because you follow certain bullshit laws you are more honest than them?

I pay taxes. I work hard for what I earn. I never steal, nor would I. I view thieves as parasites, and this host needs all of the blood it can keep.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by onifre, posted 12-01-2011 3:21 PM onifre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by Artemis Entreri, posted 12-01-2011 5:40 PM Phat has responded
 Message 177 by onifre, posted 12-02-2011 2:58 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2203 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 171 of 270 (642794)
12-01-2011 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by Phat
12-01-2011 5:11 PM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
There was a time in this once great country when one could work hard and even with no higher education be able to retire comfortably.

when? between 1945 and 1970? yeah that "Time", didn't last very long. I blame the baby boomers, they fucked everything all up, and as a child of the boomers, they made sure they got something, but didn't save much for the rest of us.


That time has passed.

yeah, thanks alot for nothing baby boomers. your parents the "greatest generation" made this place awesome, and in one generation it was back to shitty.


My gripe concerns people who tear the system down. Who are greedy and out only for themselves.

you don't like the baby boomers either, i can tell.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by Phat, posted 12-01-2011 5:11 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by Phat, posted 12-01-2011 5:54 PM Artemis Entreri has responded
 Message 173 by hooah212002, posted 12-01-2011 6:16 PM Artemis Entreri has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11569
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 172 of 270 (642796)
12-01-2011 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Artemis Entreri
12-01-2011 5:40 PM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
We cant blame all of the baby boomers. My parents and my sister never stole from anyone. We have paid our fair share of taxes.

As this topic relates to stealing, how did the boomers steal?(Apart from the wealthier republican ones)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Artemis Entreri, posted 12-01-2011 5:40 PM Artemis Entreri has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by Artemis Entreri, posted 12-01-2011 7:38 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 173 of 270 (642797)
12-01-2011 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Artemis Entreri
12-01-2011 5:40 PM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
You might want to change tact: you're starting to sound reasonable to me....

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Artemis Entreri, posted 12-01-2011 5:40 PM Artemis Entreri has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by Artemis Entreri, posted 12-01-2011 7:48 PM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply

    
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 174 of 270 (642799)
12-01-2011 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by onifre
12-01-2011 3:21 PM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
You also use drug dealing in your example of someone who isn't earning an honest living. But how so? They buy and sell a product to an already existing market. Where does the dishonesty come into play?

It's not dishonest. But the fact that they aren't lying and stealing doesn't mean that we ought to carve statutes for them.

But many drug dealers are still predators and I don't apologize for my disdain for how they make money. Many people who resort to dealing make no bones about refusing other, less lucrative methods, legal means of earning a living that others will put up with. I've flipped burgers, swabbed floors, operated buffers, enlisted in the Navy, etc. even while my middle class parents were enjoying a more than adequate middle class living.

So, no having a bad life doesn't entitle them to peddle their crap. Not any more than I'm entitled to live in my mother's basement.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by onifre, posted 12-01-2011 3:21 PM onifre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by onifre, posted 12-02-2011 3:29 PM NoNukes has responded

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2203 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 175 of 270 (642800)
12-01-2011 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by Phat
12-01-2011 5:54 PM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
We cant blame all of the baby boomers.

I was born in 1978, I couldn't vote until 1996. by the time I could 1st vote (15 years ago) this place was pretty much fucked up already, and everyone always wants to deflect "its the blacks" or "its the latino immigrants" or "its the republicans". Now it is a scramble for the pieces that are left. Just print more money and bail it out, and let the next generation figure out this mess.

who should we blame?

just the "thug hustlas" and latinos?

maybe it is those who set up the system that has failed?

oh wait I got it...its all the republicans. [LOL]

look in the mirror baby boomers, you have been on watch for the past 25 - 35 years. Has American gotten better or worse in the past 25 - 35 years?

As this topic relates to stealing, how did the boomers steal?(Apart from the wealthier republican ones)

when the truth comes out a deflection back to the topic. LOL.

how did the wealthier republicans steal? It's a bi-partisan government. Always amazing that everyone thinks the rich people are the republicans. Take a look at the top 10 richest people in congress how many are republicans 2 or 3? the republicans aka the rich people are only 20-30% of the richest of the rich, explain that one to me Phat?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by Phat, posted 12-01-2011 5:54 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2203 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 176 of 270 (642801)
12-01-2011 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by hooah212002
12-01-2011 6:16 PM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
dude i tried to tell you, its thread specific. it all depends on which side I am arguing from.

don't try to be like the posters who want to pigeon hole me into a category. "that AE guy is gay hating, Jesus loving republican." In thread A I may be, but when I support the freedom of choice in thread B, or support gay rights in thread C, don't get all crazy, and say but...but... in another debate you said this. Cause all i'm gonna be like is that was that thread.

I'll totally cuss you out in one and agree with you in another. I'm reading content posted, not being a fan one poster, or trying to hate one poster, unfortunately i feel sometimes like I am alone in this.

You might want to change tact: you're starting to sound reasonable to me....

everyone has their moments.

even a blind squirrel finds a nut, once in a while.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by hooah212002, posted 12-01-2011 6:16 PM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 925 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 177 of 270 (642909)
12-02-2011 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by Phat
12-01-2011 5:11 PM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
And not pay taxes?

Oh christ, is that your criteria? Filing for your taxes?

First, everyone pays taxes, all day we do. When ever you buy a product you pay taxes, no way around that. And even when you file for your taxes, doesn't mean you'll have to pay. I never ever pay. As a comic with an awesome tax guy, I usually get something back.

You're fishing for anyway to hate on someone because you can't do what they do or have what they have. Sounds like you should Occupy Wall Street.

Perhaps I am bitter. The way that I grew up, I should have made it in life. It was largely my own fault that I didn't.

It's not over till you decide it's over, you can do whatever you want bro.

Drugs and addiction problems plagued me, and I only now am recovering from them. Perhaps that's why I hate drug dealers.

Do you feel the same way about liquor stores and convenient stores that sell cigs?

The labor union was a solution for me in 1989. I joined and found myself finally making better than minimum wages. As long as an employee was honest and reasonably ambitious, they would always have a job. This is no longer true.

That's right, it used to be about the work produced, now it's about the dollar saved. So what do you do about that?

I pay taxes.

Everybody pays taxes. Not everyone files for taxes, but again, even if you file for taxes doesn't mean you're going to pay back to the IRS.

You're spouting cliches off like "I pay taxes" and "I make an honest living" without thinking deeper into what that means. They mean nothing.

I never steal, nor would I.

Sure you would, if you had to. Lets hope you never have to.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by Phat, posted 12-01-2011 5:11 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

    
onifre
Member (Idle past 925 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 178 of 270 (642915)
12-02-2011 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by NoNukes
12-01-2011 7:35 PM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
It's not dishonest. But the fact that they aren't lying and stealing doesn't mean that we ought to carve statutes for them.

Who has suggested this? I'm just saying don't think you're better than them cause you have a square's job.

But many drug dealers are still predators and I don't apologize for my disdain for how they make money.

Drug dealers aren't predators anymore than a clerck at a liquor store is a predator. Drugs sell themselves, no one is marketing this stuff during football games like alcohol so your kids can already be programmed to accepting alcohol as a fun pass time. That's predatory.

Many people who resort to dealing make no bones about refusing other, less lucrative methods, legal means of earning a living that others will put up with.

Why? Because some political assholes have declaired some drugs are bad and some drugs are ok?

Do you consider someone working for Big Pharma the same way? The legal drugs are worse and have far more addicts than the illegal ones. Plus, not to mention the way they rape us with the prices for meds.

Isn't that criminal? Isn't that worse than a guy growing pot and selling it? Than a person who sells a few rolls at a club or a few grams of coke?

From what I gather talking to people, it's like they hate the lifestyle of the drug dealer rather than the drugs themselves. They don't view Big Pharma and it's CEO's the same as the local drug dealer because, the CEO's aren't black guys with gold teeth driving Caddys with rims on them. They're clean cut business men, mostly white, that wear suits to work and drive SUV's with stickers of their family on it. But they are far more corrupt and detrimental to society than the 'thug hustla'.

Lets be fair.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by NoNukes, posted 12-01-2011 7:35 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by NoNukes, posted 12-02-2011 3:58 PM onifre has responded

    
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 179 of 270 (642923)
12-02-2011 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by onifre
12-02-2011 3:29 PM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
From what I gather talking to people, it's like they hate the lifestyle of the drug dealer rather than the drugs themselves.

Do you know me that well?

Maybe I hate the damage that I've seen inflicted on family members and I don't buy the idea that drug dealers bear no responsibility for the pain that the crap they sell stuff inflicts on others who don't even use.

I feel the same way about tobacco companies. There is nothing innocent or cute about selling deadly, addictive, crap.

I've personally decided how I feel about certain drugs. I don't care whether they are illegal or not. I don't care what the feds think. And I don't care that you apparently like drugs, cigarettes or both.

It might be interesting to talk about big Pharma, but quite frankly the fact that some other group of folks are evil would seem to be beside the point.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by onifre, posted 12-02-2011 3:29 PM onifre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by onifre, posted 12-02-2011 4:04 PM NoNukes has responded

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 925 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 180 of 270 (642924)
12-02-2011 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by NoNukes
12-02-2011 3:58 PM


Re: Theft and Entitlement
Do you know me that well?

No, that's why I said from talking to "people" not from talking to "you."

Maybe I hate the damage that I've seen inflicted on family members and I don't buy the idea that drug dealers bear no responsibility for the pain that the crap they sell stuff inflicts on others who don't even use.

You are gettiing away from the point, which is that a dealer isn't a dishonest person or some individual who is likely to steal from you.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by NoNukes, posted 12-02-2011 3:58 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by NoNukes, posted 12-02-2011 5:10 PM onifre has responded

    
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