|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,913 Year: 4,170/9,624 Month: 1,041/974 Week: 368/286 Day: 11/13 Hour: 0/0 |
Summations Only | Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: radical liberals (aka liberal commies) vs ultra conservatives (aka nutjobs) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4259 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined: |
caffeine writes: The third option you seem to be taking, that people don't really have these rights if they can't defend them for any reason, leads to some strange conclusions. It means that, if someone breaks into your house and steals all your possessions, then you don't actually have any right to those possessions, since you obviously don't have them any more. Other than your attempt to put words into my mouth I can’t see anything in my previous post that leads you into thinking that is my position. I simply responded to the idea that human rights don’t stop at the US border, with an example of human rights that do stop at the US border. Of course your response would be to ignore it and make up something else ::rolls eyes::
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4259 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined: |
I know right. Democrats....the best thing you can do is not vote for them, and hope they stop destroying the constitution.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
do you have any idea how sustainable the seal population is? Do you have any idea how sustainable the Minke Whale population is? I know how sustainable the blue whale population is . . . not very. Nearly went extinct due to whaling. We almost lost walrus populations as well. Are you really unaware of this?
Lets take a look at the difference of human rights in Ciudad Juarez and across the border at El Paso, Texas. Human rights are the same for everyone, no matter their nationality. That is why they are called unalienable. Do governments violate human rights? Yes. Does this mean that human rights don't exist? No.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
|
I know right. Democrats....the best thing you can do is not vote for them, and hope they stop destroying the constitution.
How are they destroying the Constitution?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
|
Ergo, your rights aren't unalienable... Proof: Internment of Japanese Americans - Wikipedia Most of them were american citizens.
Their human rights were violated. That is quite different from unalienable rights not existing. You might as well claim that speed limits do not exist since your car can go 70 mph in a 55 zone.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Their human rights were violated. That is quite different from unalienable rights not existing. So if you loose your rights, how do you still have them?
You might as well claim that speed limits do not exist since your car can go 70 mph in a 55 zone. Right, to the person claiming that, because of the speed limit, I can't drive faster than 55 I would... those signs don't really limit your speed. Just like a government defining a right as unalienable doesn't mean they can't be taken away from you.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Shield Member (Idle past 2892 days) Posts: 482 Joined:
|
So if you loose your rights, how do you still have them? They did not loose their basic human rights. They were violated.
Right, to the person claiming that, because of the speed limit, I can't drive faster than 55 I would... those signs don't really limit your speed. Having rights, dosent mean they cannot be violated. Speeding limits work the same way.
Just like a government defining a right as unalienable doesn't mean they can't be taken away from you. There is a difference between beeing stripped of your rights, and having them violated. The UN has a set of global human rights and if goverments violate those rights, other UN participating goverments should intervene. Somehow. -- Rights can be kind of a weird construct though. In the danish constitution, we have the freedom of expression, but at same time we have laws against expressing racist thoughts (Call someone a nigger or the danish equalent, Perker, on TV or in a paper interview, and you WILL get fined) and we have blaspemy laws. Danish ISPs also block ThePirateBay, AllOfMP3, and Grooveshark. [edit] I'm sorry i answered your questions directed at Taq, but i couldnt help my self.. Edited by rbp, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
|
So if you loose your rights, how do you still have them?
You don't lose your rights. You always have the rights that all humans have. Whether those rights are violated is a separate issue.
Right, to the person claiming that, because of the speed limit, I can't drive faster than 55 I would... those signs don't really limit your speed. Correct, but doing 70 in a 55 does not make the speed limit go away. It is still there. You can still be ticketed for breaking the speed limit. Violating a person's human rights does not make those rights go away. They are not lost. They are still there. Human rights are not things that humans are physically incapable of doing. They are moral guidelines of how we should treat each other. To reference Hume, human rights are an ought, not an is. We can say that slavery is bad because it violates human rights. Showing that someone owns a slave does not make this human rights violation go away.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4259 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined: |
taq writes: I know how sustainable the blue whale population is . . . not very. Nearly went extinct due to whaling. We almost lost walrus populations as well. Are you really unaware of this? when in doubt change the topic. is this your attitude? your weak tactics. this isn't about blue whales and walruses, I swear you are like talking to a little kid.I wasn’t even talking to you and each reply you go from one tangent to the next, put the bong down for a second and pay attention man. And what is with your silly insinuations about what I am talking about or what I know when each response is clearly a made up tangent that has nothing to do with what I am talking about? taq writes: Human rights are the same for everyone, no matter their nationality. That is why they are called unalienable. Do governments violate human rights? Yes. Does this mean that human rights don't exist? No. Roflmfao @ u. You got pwnd. You stated they don’t stop at the border, I gave evidence that they do, and now you move the goalposts. LOL Next.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Speed limits are a great example to refute inalienable rights.
There is no "right of speed limits", rather they are a consensus of a government. The fact that you have the right to drive 70mph on one road does not mean you have that right in a different jurisdiction. Using speed limits as an example of some "Natural Right" is simply silly and irrelevant.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
I simply responded to the idea that human rights don’t stop at the US border, with an example of human rights that do stop at the US border. You actually didn't give any examples. Is there something intrinsic in Mexicans that prevents them from having human rights? Is that what you are saying? Are you saying that they are sub-human and deserve the same treatment as dogs or cattle simply because of their geographic position?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
|
Speed limits are a great example to refute inalienable rights. Speed limits were merely an analogy.
There is no "right of speed limits", rather they are a consensus of a government. No one is saying that speed limits are an unalienable right. They were simply an example of the difference between absence and violation.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
when in doubt change the topic. And here I thougt the topic was harvest of animals. I agree that well managed hunting is fine. I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is unfettered harvesting with no regulations.
You got pwnd. You stated they don’t stop at the border, I gave evidence that they do, and now you move the goalposts. LOL And that evidence would be . . . what?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
But the rights are granted by a government and apply only within a given context.
We might believe certain rights "should be" inalienable, but that is simply our position. Those rights do not exist except within "our" belief context.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
|
But the rights are granted by a government and apply only within a given context. Human rights are intrinsic to being human, and no government can take them or grant them. At least that is what Locke and many others have argued, and what the Founding Fathers alluded to as well. Governments can only protect or violate human rights. Going back to the water example, if Congress passes a bill stating that water is no longer wet does water stop being wet? No. Wetness is intrinsic to water. In the same way, some rights are intrinsic to being human (e.g. life and liberty). These are the natural human rights. Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024