|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,908 Year: 4,165/9,624 Month: 1,036/974 Week: 363/286 Day: 6/13 Hour: 1/2 |
Summations Only | Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: radical liberals (aka liberal commies) vs ultra conservatives (aka nutjobs) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
|
Of course it does.
It is the US Declaration of Independence that made the claim that there were inalienable rights, a product of a particular culture. And what I have consistently said is that governments are one of the sources that grant rights; in fact I have said the three main sources are states (governments), societies and cultures.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
Of course it does. What does? I have no idea what "it" refers to.
And what I have consistently said is that governments are one of the sources that grant rights; in fact I have said the three main sources are states (governments), societies and cultures. No, you have not been consistent. I have pointed out your inconsistencies in several posts. Your description of how the rights described in the bill of rights are held by US citizens is both historically and operationally inaccurate. Your error has led you to make several other errors. The most significant error is your position that rights that are not respected by the government, or any other single one of the possible sources, do not exist. I have agreed with your statement regarding the three sources of government because the terms "societies" and "cultures" are so vague as encompass just about anything, including natural rights. If there is anything in this post that is unclear, or if you need me to quote your previous erroneous statements, just ask. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
It refers to your past posts that certainly seem to support my position.
Rights only exist that are recognized and created by one of the sources that grant rights; in fact I have said the three main sources are states (governments), societies and cultures.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Reality shows that rights are granted through a consensus by a government within a State, society, culture. Reality shows that governments make rules that they expect citizens to follow. This can occur through an autocracy, oligarchy, or a representative democarcy, to name a few. The government creates legal rights. These are not the same as natural rights. Whether or not natural rights exist is an argument long in the making, but I think it is important to point out that they are not the same as legal rights.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Yes, you do keep claiming that there is some difference, but so far I see no evidence of any inalienable "natural or human rights" that exist outside of those granted by consensus of a State, society or culture.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Yes, you do keep claiming that there is some difference, but so far I see no evidence of any inalienable "natural or human rights" that exist outside of those granted by consensus of a State, society or culture.
My evidence is the that you fear for your life, you don't like your stuff stolen, and you don't want to be locked up in prison for no good reason. These are universal human emotions. This is what human rights are based on. They are intrinsic to the human condition.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Sorry but again just assertion and conflation.
Yes they are normal human emotions; so are fear, love, hunger, pain ... Those are not rights.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Sorry but again just assertion and conflation. Yes they are normal human emotions; so are fear, love, hunger, pain ... Those are not rights. They are not bare assertions. They are very real emotions, ones that I think I am accurately portraying. We have empathy. We know what causes us pain and fear, therefore we know which actions will cause pain and fear in others. This knowledge forms the foundation of natural rights. Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
They are emotions.
The assertion is that there are "natural rights". Where is there any evidence that there are any "natural rights?"Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
They are emotions. The assertion is that there are "natural rights". Where is there any evidence that there are any "natural rights?"
Emotions and empathy are the evidence. You know what causes fear in yourself, therefore you know what causes fear in others. Therefore, you should not do those things to other people. You fear death. You also know that others fear death, and the actions that cause them to fear death. Therefore, you should not do those things. The natural right is the right to not have others harm you.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
You keep repeating the same thing but never show any connection between desires and rights or the existence of any rights.
Emotion is not synonymous with "right". Empathy is not synonymous with "right".Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Panda Member (Idle past 3742 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined: |
Taq writes:
One word: Dignitas. You fear death. You also know that others fear death, and the actions that cause them to fear death. Therefore, you should not do those things.Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
You keep repeating the same thing but never show any connection between desires and rights or the existence of any rights. It is a conclusion that follows from the premises: P1: You fear death.P2: Fear is a very, very negative experience. You don't want to experience fear of death. P3: Empathy allows you to know that others fear death in the same way. P4: You are able to determine which of your actions creates the same negative experience in others. C: You ought not to cause fear of death in others since it is something that you don't want to experience.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
One word: Dignitas.
Do you want to die?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Again, where are there any inalienable rights in what you posted?
By definition something that "ought to be" does not exist.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024