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Author Topic:   So.. visited a true-scale ark.
Modulous
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Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 7 of 22 (668218)
07-18-2012 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by ringo
07-18-2012 12:31 PM


According to the story, Noah did have access to iron
Though of course, that might be anachronistic. They certainly had access to iron when Genesis was written, but in the time period it is meant to portray? I'm less certain.

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 Message 6 by ringo, posted 07-18-2012 12:31 PM ringo has replied

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 Message 8 by ringo, posted 07-18-2012 3:19 PM Modulous has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(2)
Message 9 of 22 (668222)
07-18-2012 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by ringo
07-18-2012 3:19 PM


The story itself is clear that iron was available to Noah. The time discrepancy might pose a problem for dating the flood but not for construction of the ark.
I'm not disputing that the authors of Genesis believed that Noah had access to iron. What I'm saying is that this might be like me telling a story about Jesus using a mobile phone or Nero's love of the Unreal Engine. It would be true in the context of my story, but it would be a glaring anachronism if it wasn't done properly.
For those that have been bothered to do the work (I never have), the Bible can be used to give us a date for the flood at around 2500BC. The discovery of iron smelting/smithing was 1300BC or so according to the link provided earlier. If we were to move the flood a thousand years forward (and say it's a dating issue rather than an anachronism) then a chronology ends up with the Holy Roman Empire still existing today and other such strangeness.
However, when Genesis was meant to have been written (according to tradition, by Moses), was meant to be about 1300BC. Modern historians date a lot of the actual writing to a much later date. It's easy to see why people writing in a world where iron is basically commonplace might think it existed in the time they envisioned the flood events occurred in.

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 Message 8 by ringo, posted 07-18-2012 3:19 PM ringo has replied

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 Message 10 by Jon, posted 07-18-2012 4:49 PM Modulous has replied
 Message 12 by ringo, posted 07-18-2012 5:07 PM Modulous has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 11 of 22 (668226)
07-18-2012 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Jon
07-18-2012 4:49 PM


Well, if we're going to start turning to scientific evidence, then we'll just have to throw out the whole flood story: no Noah, no boat, no nothing...
When asking questions about a story, I think it is best to turn to the story for answers.
I'm just saying that Noah knowing about iron looks to be anachronistic. If a new Gospel turns up, and all the dating methods we could come up with suggest it was written in 40AD. But there's this passage:
quote:
And yea, did Jesus look at his Rolex and he did declare, "It's exactly 9:37!'
Obviously in the context of the story it is a true fact about Jesus that he had a wrist watch. But it's still anachronistic.

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Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 14 of 22 (668232)
07-18-2012 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by ringo
07-18-2012 5:07 PM


The problem is that we can only date the earliest known use of iron. The Bible itself is not solid evidence of earlier use but you can't use absence of evidence to contadict it either.
Absolutely, hence my tentative 'I'm less certain'. We can say that given the absence of any evidence for the use of iron predating 1300BC in the near east, it is unlikely that it was used in 2500BC. We can't be certain, but given what we know about iron manufacturing - it leaves behind evidence - the absence of the evidence is indicative of absence of iron manufacturing in that period.
That's pretty much how we date the origin of many things, from species to materials to tools and even ideas.

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