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Author Topic:   How can we regulate the news media
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 5 of 69 (687823)
01-17-2013 12:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by marc9000
01-16-2013 9:26 PM


Is there proof that this is wrong? Why isn't this more freely discussed on the news media's opinion and commentary shows? The reason is obvious - the news media doesn't want it discussed. Not only the liberal media, but Fox news and conservative talk radio don't want it discussed either. Conservative news outlets and mainstream news outlets don't have a lot in common, but they'll unite in a heartbeat to maintain the status quo.
Perhaps you are using the wrong media. These topics are discussed frequently by guests on NPR.
Regular media is about snagging eyeballs to generate ad revenue. To some extent, the news is about getting your television on the right channel for prime time viewing. Why is it so surprising that the news is sensation only.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by marc9000, posted 01-16-2013 9:26 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by marc9000, posted 01-18-2013 7:36 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 69 (687830)
01-17-2013 1:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by marc9000
01-16-2013 9:26 PM


Based on the above study, we could impose a windfall profits tax on the news media following any major news event involving a mass shooting.
I don't want the government to have this kind of power over the press.
We need enough information about these things to be able to discuss policy publicly. I think that means knowing something about the perpetrator and his health and mental state, the size and extent of the event, the reaction of law enforcement, etc. Yes, there is the stuff of lesser value, like the interviews with survivors and the families of the fallen, but some family members seem to want to express their feelings.
Perhaps I need a little more persuading that there is some kind of copy cat effect playing a significant role.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by marc9000, posted 01-16-2013 9:26 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by marc9000, posted 01-18-2013 7:44 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 10 of 69 (687831)
01-17-2013 1:49 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Coyote
01-17-2013 1:09 AM


Re: From the interwebs
Coyote, right on cue. Let's see if you hang around to discuss this...
Because these are such reasonable restrictions on the rights recognized by the second amendment, they should be equally reasonable when applied to the first.
We have those already.
We have centuries of jurisprudence on the limits of the first amendment. Does Congress truly make "no laws" abridging the freedom of speech, or infringing on the freedom of the press? Of course not.
Not more than three stories per reporter per month.
What would be the state interest that was furthered by such a restriction? We know what limiting gun magazine size is supposed to do.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Coyote, posted 01-17-2013 1:09 AM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by marc9000, posted 01-18-2013 7:48 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 69 (687856)
01-17-2013 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by dronestar
01-17-2013 9:15 AM


Re: Is there a Joseph Goebbels in the house?
I think Herr Obama and congress prefer that Faux News not only stay in business, but have MORE competition . . .
I don't understand your logic. You are pointing out that Obama signed the NDAA. Why is that an indication or an example of why Obama would prefer even more press coverage?
I don't want the government controlling the press because I want stories like this to be published. I have no idea what your point is.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by dronestar, posted 01-17-2013 9:15 AM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by dronestar, posted 01-17-2013 10:23 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 69 (687873)
01-17-2013 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by dronestar
01-17-2013 10:23 AM


Re: Is there a Joseph Goebbels in the house?
I've long been a critique of the corporate media. Americans are known the world over for their actions against their own best interests. The government can accomplish this through violence or very effective propaganda. Obama and Congress has just made the effects of propaganda on the american people even more successful.
I find your reasoning convoluted and silly. It's not because there is not a point to make about the NDAA. It is your attempt to squeeze it into being the topic here that I find forced.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by dronestar, posted 01-17-2013 10:23 AM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by AZPaul3, posted 01-17-2013 11:43 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied
 Message 20 by dronestar, posted 01-17-2013 11:50 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 69 (687877)
01-17-2013 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by dronestar
01-17-2013 11:39 AM


Re: Is there a Joseph Goebbels in the house?
dronestar writes:
NoNukes writes:
I love it when someone makes my point so clearly for me while thinking they are doing the opposite.
Please be a little more careful with your reporting. I did not say this.
Goebbels would be proud.
At some point, you are actually going to want to accuse someone of fascism. I wonder what terms will be left to use.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by dronestar, posted 01-17-2013 11:39 AM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by dronestar, posted 01-17-2013 12:45 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 41 of 69 (688113)
01-19-2013 7:05 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by marc9000
01-18-2013 7:36 PM


I had not heard Ventura's talk and I'm not going to defend anything he says. Further, I don't believe NPR's job is to counter whatever sensationalism is found in other media. They are responsible for only their own reporting.
Another poster sent me the following link. This would be an example of another source of information about gun control and the Sandy Hook shooting event.
On the Media: Listen | WNYC Studios | Podcasts
I can't automatically accept your claim without some evidence, because I don't believe it is. Prove me wrong and I'll admit it, but I'll probably not be able to resist comparing whatever amount of it you can show to the amount of discussion on gun control.
I'm not going to bother with this. You don't listen to NPR, yet you've already made up your mind about what is covered there without having done so. Further, I'm not bothered by the fact that you don't like discussion of gun control. The question is whether there is coverage without sensationalism.
Something funny is going on with the way your apostrophes register on my browser. I don't see that same problem with everyone else's messages.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by marc9000, posted 01-18-2013 7:36 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by marc9000, posted 01-22-2013 7:35 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 69 (688114)
01-19-2013 7:14 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by marc9000
01-18-2013 7:44 PM


My suggested “windfall profits” tax would certainly imply an ability to pay. Why do you bestow upon the press such a superior status?
Your proposal was for the government to tax news based on content. That power would result in discouraging certain content. I don't want the government to have control over news reporting, particularly when the thing I want reported on most is the government.
I apologize for not providing more detail, but I thought the rationale behind the first amendment was quite basic and well understood.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by marc9000, posted 01-18-2013 7:44 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by marc9000, posted 01-22-2013 7:45 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 62 of 69 (688567)
01-23-2013 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by marc9000
01-22-2013 7:35 PM


NoNukes writes:
I'm not going to bother with this. You don't listen to NPR, yet you've already made up your mind about what is covered there without having done so.
marc9000 writes:
The same way you do with Ventura. The same way most people do who put down Fox News without ever watching/listening to it.
I read the Ventura article and I have watched Fox News. I haven't commented on Fox News without having watched it. On the other hand, commenting without listening is exactly what you did regarding NPR.
So my earlier point that that discussion isn't properly taking place still stands.
No your comment does not stand. It's simply uninformed. The discussion is out there. You choose not to hear it.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by marc9000, posted 01-22-2013 7:35 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 64 of 69 (688643)
01-24-2013 2:38 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by marc9000
01-18-2013 7:48 PM


Re: From the interwebs
Could you elaborate? Not necessarily a lot of long, drawn out c/p's or links, just a summary in your own words?
Are you kidding me? Have you heard of "fighting words doctrine", "clear and present danger", Supreme Court decisions on obscenity, campaign finance, time, manner and place restrictions on speech, ""imminent lawless action", The Pentagon Papers. The Sedition Act of 1918. Are you seriously questioning this issue or just seeing what sticks?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by marc9000, posted 01-18-2013 7:48 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 65 of 69 (688644)
01-24-2013 2:50 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by marc9000
01-22-2013 7:45 PM


Not content, but an unpredictable, quick profit.
A profit that would be considered unpredictable based on content.
As many people feel that the rationale behind the second amendment is basic and well understood. It was that way for the first 3/4, maybe the first 4/5 of the nations history
Complete revisionist nonsense.
For all but the last few years, the second amendment was interpreted as not applying to state regulation of guns at all, and as being limited to weapons that were suitable for use by the Militia. In fact none of the bill of rights applied to state legislatures prior to the late 19th century despite the passage of the 14th Amendment in the mid 1860s.
And of course beside the point.
Is it really necessary to go into detail about how much communication and advertising have changed in the past 50 years?
We have government regulation of advertising despite the fact that such regulations affect speech. But generally speaking the response to bad speech is more speech except in a few circumstances.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by marc9000, posted 01-22-2013 7:45 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 66 of 69 (688646)
01-24-2013 2:54 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by marc9000
01-22-2013 7:22 PM


Re: From the interwebs
The 1970 news media hated Richard Nixon. If you want to believe that college students, in their vast stores of teenage knowledge and experience, thought they knew better than Nixon did about foreign policy all by themselves
How old are you?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by marc9000, posted 01-22-2013 7:22 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 69 of 69 (688745)
01-25-2013 12:35 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by marc9000
01-24-2013 10:39 PM


I've made up my mind that a news organization isn't going to allow those who may be hostile to it to have discussions about restrictions to it without having at least some input of the discussion.
Seriously. Why would I or anyone else even care about that question? The original question was whether media even discusses whether news coverage ought to include sensational details that might ultimately be harmful. If your rebuttal is that there is never such a discussion in the media without an opposing view point being aired, that's not a question of even the least bit interest to me.
The Constitution directly states its requirement that the president be a natural born citizen. If there’s any question at all that he's not, (in Obama’s case, there are several)
There is no serious question about this. In fact there never was. But by now, this is so much of a settled issue that we can use the question to identify an agenda. The fact that you think there is yet a serious question about whether Obama was born in Hawaii says something about you and nothing at all about the president's bona fides.
NoNukes writes:
In fact none of the bill of rights applied to state legislatures prior to the late 19th century
marc9000 writes:
Not even the first amendment?
No, not even the first amendment applied to the states during most of the nineteenth century. During the nineteenth century, we had state churches despite the Establishment Clause. In some cases, the state church was the Anglican church. Prior to the civil war there was the burning of books by southern state governments with impunity. Freedom of speech was first applied to states by the Supreme Court in a 1925 case.
Even now there are portions of the bill of rights that are not applied to the states. (Fifth amendment right to indictment by grand jury and the right to a jury trial in civil trials in state courts)
No, based on an unusual event, an event that earlier sensationalism could have contributed to causing.
In other words, the tax would be applied due to the content of the coverage including sensationalism. That's a content based restriction of news coverage by the government. No thanks.
There was something left to do, to understand that the President may have had intelligence reports and a thorough understanding of history and warfare that were far more detailed than the Democrat loving press was telling college students
The question was whether the student's believed they had a valid opinion about the war in Viet Nam that Nixon was wrong. Nothing you've presented suggest that either the student's did not have that opinion, or that it was the liberal media that caused the student's to have that impression.
One might also note that Viet Nam essential destroyed LBJ and his prospects for election. Anti- Viet Nam sentiment wasn't just about the media hating Republicans.
Further, I think the weight of history suggests that the US involvement in Viet Nam was a mistake. Nothing worth 59000 American lives was accomplished.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by marc9000, posted 01-24-2013 10:39 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
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