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Author Topic:   Biblical Eugenics - being wrong about how to colorize your goats
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11440
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 181 of 185 (707983)
10-03-2013 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 180 by PaulK
10-03-2013 2:18 AM


Re: I may have been completely wrong
I think the issue is that what Jacob says in chapter 31 doesn't appear earlier in the story and seems to be at odds with it.

Right, together the story doesn't really add up.

There is another way to explain that. Jacob was lying.

And I think that's the answer. We know that Jacob is a trickster-type. We know that it would be perfectly easy for the author to use Jacob's explanation from chapter 31 instead of the story we do get. So why didn't he ? Why is the author's version of the events so different from Jacob's ?

I think that Jacob is saying that God did it to cover up his trickery and justify his claim to the animals. It's the sort of thing that he would do.

You know what: I think you're absolutely correct.

Jacob did use the wood to make the colored offspring. But when it came time to explain to Laban's daughters how he had gotten his flock, he was all: "Er, I had a dream, and uh, God made it all happen, yeah, that's how it went down".

So yeah, that makes sense. He was just covering his ass.

Thanks Paul!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by PaulK, posted 10-03-2013 2:18 AM PaulK has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by NoNukes, posted 10-03-2013 11:19 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9650
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 182 of 185 (707990)
10-03-2013 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 181 by New Cat's Eye
10-03-2013 10:17 AM


Re: I may have been completely wrong
The other possibility is the one given by Jar regarding other Biblical stories. There are plenty of these kinds of inconsistencies in the Bible. Those mixups might well result from the stories being told over and over again by different people.

The truth of the matter is that it really does not matter much how the sheep gained their color. What matters is that the result was supernatural. Quite frankly, marc9000's belief that the breeding was natural and not supernatural makes Jacob even more of a trickster. I'm not sure why he prefers it.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.
Richard P. Feynman

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-03-2013 10:17 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by jar, posted 10-03-2013 11:24 AM NoNukes has not yet responded
 Message 184 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-03-2013 11:53 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29028
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 183 of 185 (707993)
10-03-2013 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 182 by NoNukes
10-03-2013 11:19 AM


Re: I may have been completely wrong
Remember the God character in the Jacob stories is also a trickster and a bully. The stories are about the founding of the tribe and people "Israel" and so mythos.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by NoNukes, posted 10-03-2013 11:19 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11440
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 184 of 185 (708003)
10-03-2013 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 182 by NoNukes
10-03-2013 11:19 AM


Re: I may have been completely wrong
The other possibility is the one given by Jar regarding other Biblical stories. There are plenty of these kinds of inconsistencies in the Bible. Those mixups might well result from the stories being told over and over again by different people.

Sure. I think we should expect some mix-ups and convolutions and things like that, although, on the other hand, if we're talking about the direct word of God then you'd think that stuff wouldn't be there.

The truth of the matter is that it really does not matter much how the sheep gained their color.

Yeah, not so much for the bigger picture, but I think the author did think that you really could affect the offspring with the environment.

What matters is that the result was supernatural.

Here's where I disagree. The story, itself, describes it as a natural process using pieces of wood.

And that's why I brought it up for the literalists, because the natural process it describes is now known to be wrong.

Quite frankly, marc9000's belief that the breeding was natural and not supernatural makes Jacob even more of a trickster.

I don't think making Jacob a trickster is a problem for him.

I'm not sure why he prefers it.

He's trying to maintain a literally inerrant Bible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by NoNukes, posted 10-03-2013 11:19 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13191
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 185 of 185 (708011)
10-03-2013 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by New Cat's Eye
10-02-2013 3:26 PM


Re: I may have been completely wrong
Catholic Scientist writes:

Does anyone else want to take a shot at interpreting what is going on in this story?


quote:
"The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose." -- William Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-02-2013 3:26 PM New Cat's Eye has acknowledged this reply

  
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