Summations Only

Accuse accuse accuse. I don't CARE about the meanders, I got drawn into this discussion more or less just to appease Atheos who was carrying on about it. I haven't studied it enough to get into a debate about it. I don't trust what you say or anyone says, frankly, you can pick and choose the evidence you want to apply, and in this case I've got Steve Austin disagreeing with you, and he could be right despite the accusations you are all making against him too. Nobody is wrong about everything. And I distrust those accusations as well anyway. Sometime maybe I can look into it more and come to my own conclusions, but for now your arguments are suspect in my mind. In order to get out of them I'll just concede the point. You win this round.

You seem to have pointedly ignored the context as usual. I said first time in these debates this has come up, and that's the truth. As for bending under high temperatures and pressure when buried deep in the earth, how is that relevant to rock NOT buried deep in the earth conforming to an uplift or down slope? It gets tiresome talking to kneejerk debunkers.

Kneejerk debunkery again. Its being deep doesn't mean it was a "gently slow-flowing stream."

No, you are right about that and I knew it as soon as I posted it but oh well. Of course they WERE buried deep. OK.Nothing you said in that post requires OE explanations, though.As for anything I can think up, I have had the strong impression that the lack of major disturbances during 750 million years of strata build up followed by lots of disturbances all at once hadn't been recognized at all. Getting anybody to even grasp what I was talking about I thought was going to be a losing battle, and for most of the discussion it was. Not that you can't "explain" it once it's been acknowledged of course.

One doesn't have to "make up" damp rocks when one is discussing what would have happened during and after the Flood, it's a natural assumption, and I assume they WERE damp anyway, whatever that contributed or didn't contribute to anything, so you can drop that bit of accusation, thank you.I have not been misreading the diagram. A slope is a slope I don't care how long a slope it is. I also don't care how hard or soft the rocks have to be to conform to it, I assumed damp but I DON'T CARE, IT ISN'T IMPORTANT. My main point has been that they were all in place when the tectonic and volcanic activity caused the uplift and the canyon and so on AND THAT IS TRUE AND VISIBLE ON THE DIAGRAM.I see, so now you are agreeing with me about the order of things that nobody agreed about for a long time. Wasn't it you who suggested that the Claron layer was deposited AFTER the Hurricane fault occurred? Now it's impossible, all that can happen after uplift is erosion. Oh goody, shift and shift.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Sure, you can imagine into fact anything you like, RAZD, including hundreds of millions of years of no tectonic activity. Fine, that takes care of my argument right there. No need to continue.I started talking about "huge" and "large scale" disturbances to differentiate between the INVISIBLE erosion that everybody tries to say exists, and the VISIBLE tectonic and volcanic disturbances. Doesn't matter what I say or why somebody will make up something to accuse me of.AND THE 750 MILLION YEARS WAS THE NUMBER DR. A GAVE FOR THE TIME TO BUILD THE STRATA FROM THE TAPEATS UP. I'D been SAYING A BILLION YEARS BUT THAT INCLUDES THE FORMATIONS BENEATH THE CANYONS. BUT YOU MISSED ALL THAT AND JUST WANT TO ACCUSE ME OF SOMETHING, ANYTHING.

I've argued this many times here before and don't want to get into it again now. I posted that because the diagram itself shows that the tilting occurred while the Claron and the lava field above it were already there.

What's impossible is that idiotic idea that rocks represent landscapes that represent times on the earth.But the Flood is the most natural explanation for layered rocks of different sediments with dead things inside them. The order of things appears to be that the layers were laid down, then tectonic movement which caused vulcanism and earthquakes and faulting and uplift and the works came fairly soon afterward, and so did The Great Unconformity which I believe was caused by lateral force tilting and pushing strata beneath a very deep and heavy stack of strata that were already in place, and the granite and the schist were caused by the magma from beneath at the same time. They've had over four thousand years to come to their present form.I know very little about conventional Old Earth Geology, the names of the supposed eras and all that and I don't want to know more, it's obviously just an elaborate fantasy into which a lot of genuine science is forced to fit, too bad.I could be wrong about HOW various things happened concerning the Flood, but not about the Flood itself. In any case I think the scenario I've been pursuing is a pretty good one and that a great deal of it has been shown to be supported by actual evidence. Of course any evidence can be turned to almost any purpose when it comes to speculations about the past, all it takes is a good imagination, or even a bad one for that matter.Oh and about that pressure and heat causing the rocks to be pliable, these rocks were VERY WET, which I would think might make a difference in the temperature and therefore the pliability based on heat, not that it matters anyway of course.NOW I'D REALLY LIKE TO LEAVE THIS PLACE WHICH I EVEN WANTEDE TO DO AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS THREAD.DO have a great New Year.

Atheos, The canyon "meanders" gently, which is a different sense of the word from the kind of meander that started the discussion here, which is the hairpin turn created by rivers, which also occur in the GC, between some very high walls on both sides. The canyon does NOT meander in that sense and that's one reason I couldn't figure out what you were saying. Might be the same problem for this other person you are talking about. Why there should be any problem at all with the canyon's meandering course in the other sense completely escapes me.I am not back to debate, debate here is impossible, clearly against a stacked deck, wild distortions of the issues and worse,.

And I can't help but react to Dr. A's absolutely unfair Summary. Not in any detail, because that's a waste of energy here though I may try to do that at my blog, but just to say that he's persistently mischaracterized my argument, and since I give him credit for some brains I sometimes have to wonder if that's intentional.In any case he's persistently tried to palm off pictures that show tectonic and erosional disturbances that occurred AFTER the strata were all in place, which is what I've been arguing is the case over and over again, presenting them as if they disprove my point.Well, they don't, not one of them shows the kinds of disturbances I've been saying should have occurred to the stack WHILE THE STRATA WERE BEING FORMED, they all either show the disturbances that occurred afterward or they refer to the Supergroup and other rocks below the Tapeats which I pointedly left out of my descriptions, or they are too ambiguous to decipher.That couldn't have been more clear but five of you cheered his blatantly unfair post though if you'd been following the argument you should have known what he was saying was false.Oh and thanks Marc for your support but of course that's a lost cause too. The abuse level here is off the charts but they can't see it, to them it's just science and truth don't you know. Ha ha.I'm not here to debate, go ahead and heap on the abusive lies about that too.

This is ridiculous. Your pictures of the CANYON's meandering are taken from high above, showing miles of the canyon. They do NOT show the tight HAIRPIN turns that the RIVER takes. A GIANT hairpin turn in the CANYON is NOT the same thing as a hairpin turn in the RIVER. The RIVER and the CANYON are two different things.

Oh fer cryin out loud. Good grief.

I give up. If I keep coming back here I'll go stark raving bonkers or have a stroke or something.

I don't believe it. Shall I scream and tear my hair out?

The level of delusion here is beyond belief.