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Author Topic:   Bible and Plagiarism
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 31 of 51 (715429)
01-05-2014 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Raphael
01-04-2014 7:05 PM


Re: Plagiarism
Raphael writes:
I believe it is important to not blindly follow a source proven to be false.
What does "proven to be false" mean?
Is Goldfinger "proven to be false" because Fort Knox was never robbed? Did Ian Fleming "plagiarize" London street names from a city map?
There are many things in the Bible that are "proven to be false" - the Flood is one glaring example. (It's interesting that the Flood story was, in fact, "borrowed" if not officially plagiarized.)
I believe it is important not to "blindly follow" ANY source. But some of the ideas in the Bible may be worth following whether they were borrowed or not.
You can plagiarize mere facts but can you really plagiarize ideas?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Raphael, posted 01-04-2014 7:05 PM Raphael has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by AZPaul3, posted 01-06-2014 2:02 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 37 of 51 (715548)
01-07-2014 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by AZPaul3
01-06-2014 2:02 PM


Re: Plagiarism
AZPaul3 writes:
Can someone "plagiarize" a fact?
Of course. You collect observations of the stars (or whatever) and I take your notes and publish them as my own. That is pagiarism.
AZPaul3 writes:
Not plagiarism of any "fact" but plagiarism of your intellectual property ... your ideas.
I disagree. Plagiarism is stealing the expression of facts and/or ideas. You can't "own" an idea any more than you can own a fact. You can only own the way it is recorded.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by AZPaul3, posted 01-06-2014 2:02 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by NoNukes, posted 01-07-2014 11:48 AM ringo has replied
 Message 41 by AZPaul3, posted 01-07-2014 1:10 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 38 of 51 (715549)
01-07-2014 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Raphael
01-06-2014 3:50 PM


Re: What is faith?
Raphael writes:
ringo writes:
What does "proven to be false" mean?
The earth was once thought to be flat. That was proven to be false.
You said in Message 15, "I believe it is important to not blindly follow a source proven to be false."
We're talking about a source here - e.g. the Bible - not a specific statement made by a source. Many statements made by the Bible have been proven to be false - e.g. that the earth is flat. Does that mean that the entire source is "proven to be false"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Raphael, posted 01-06-2014 3:50 PM Raphael has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 40 of 51 (715558)
01-07-2014 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by NoNukes
01-07-2014 11:48 AM


Re: Plagiarism
NoNukes writes:
Stealing expression is copyright infringement. Plagiarism is lying about authorship. Plagiarism is not about ownership at all.
Yes, that's a good clarification.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by NoNukes, posted 01-07-2014 11:48 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 46 of 51 (715689)
01-08-2014 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by AZPaul3
01-07-2014 1:10 PM


Re: Plagiarism
AZPaul3 writes:
As for owning ideas ... all of patent and copyright law are built specifically to accomplish this very thing.
Not really. A copyright protects the publisher, not the author; it protects the right to copy. When copying was expensive, it had some meaning; now, not so much.
The only right an author and/or an inventor has is to choose who has the right to copy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by AZPaul3, posted 01-07-2014 1:10 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by NoNukes, posted 01-08-2014 4:57 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 48 of 51 (715799)
01-09-2014 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by NoNukes
01-08-2014 4:57 PM


Re: Plagiarism
NoNukes writes:
First, copyright beyond protecting the right to copy, assigns to authors, the sole right to copy, distribute, to publicly perform a work, and to make derivative works.
My point being that (in the past) the author was entirely at the mercy of the publisher who had the ability to do the copying.
NoNukes writes:
The economics has been favorable to pirating or illegal copying at every time since Guttenberg.
I don't think so. The cost of buying the rights to a book was (in the past) relatively small compared to the cost of typesetting, printing, etc. Today, the packaging costs more than the copying.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by NoNukes, posted 01-08-2014 4:57 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
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