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Author Topic:   Why would Mary ask this?
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2795 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 3 of 14 (72616)
12-12-2003 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Brian
12-11-2003 6:30 AM


How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
Another way to say this might be, "How's that? I'm not even having sex."
I see your puzzle but let me suggest an alternative understanding.
It seems reasonable that a young girl might respond this way, assuming a distant wedding date and an urgency in the angel's tone and manner. Indeed, she apparently conceived forthwith; for she says,
quote:
"Behold I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be unto me according to your word." And the angel departed from her. verse 38 RSV
"In those days ... "
[A few days later (Living Bible)] [After those days (Modern Language Bible)]
Mary goes to visit her cousin Elizabeth who, at verse 36, is six months pregnant. And when Liz hears Mary's voice, her own fetus starts kicking! Then, addressing Mary, Liz:
quote:
... exclaimed with a loud cry, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb."
"And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" vss. 42,43 RSV
This does indeed sound like "the storyteller's art" and he is clearly telling us that Mary is already pregnant ('fruit of thy womb' - 'mother of my Lord').
By the time she and Joseph (in those days) travel to Bethlehem for the census, she is already, "great with child." 2:5 KJV
Bottom line: I believe the "storyteller" wants us to understand that Mary got pregnant the night the "angel" came into her bedroom. Well, Duhhh!
"How can I get pregnant?" Mary asked.
"The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee." The angel answered.
Sex education circa 4BC.
db
[This message has been edited by doctrbill, 12-12-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Brian, posted 12-11-2003 6:30 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by ConsequentAtheist, posted 12-12-2003 9:55 PM doctrbill has replied
 Message 11 by Brian, posted 12-24-2003 11:13 AM doctrbill has replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2795 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 5 of 14 (72630)
12-12-2003 11:46 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by ConsequentAtheist
12-12-2003 9:55 PM


What's your bitch?
Have anything useful to say?
db

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by ConsequentAtheist, posted 12-12-2003 9:55 PM ConsequentAtheist has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Rei, posted 12-13-2003 2:18 AM doctrbill has replied
 Message 7 by ConsequentAtheist, posted 12-13-2003 6:32 AM doctrbill has replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2795 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 8 of 14 (72672)
12-13-2003 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by ConsequentAtheist
12-13-2003 6:32 AM


ConsequentAtheist writes:
I remain curious as to the source of your clarity about the future tense "thou shalt conceive in the womb".
Thou shalt respond to my post.
Now, how long will that take?
[This message has been edited by doctrbill, 12-13-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by ConsequentAtheist, posted 12-13-2003 6:32 AM ConsequentAtheist has not replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2795 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 9 of 14 (72674)
12-13-2003 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Rei
12-13-2003 2:18 AM


Thanks for the heads-up Rei. He seems a bit like Rrhain with less finess.
db

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Rei, posted 12-13-2003 2:18 AM Rei has not replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2795 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 10 of 14 (73762)
12-17-2003 12:36 PM


Bump.
Brian must be on vacation. Xmas break?

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2795 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 12 of 14 (75065)
12-24-2003 10:36 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Brian
12-24-2003 11:13 AM


Brian.
I have reviewed your original post and I think I now understand your question.
Brian writes:
The angel Gabriel has appeared to Mary to tell her that she is going to conceive, ... Now Mary is betrothed to Joseph, they are to be married so why does she say:
How shall this be, seeing I know not a man
Verse 35 says ‘And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Mary’s words, and verse 35, reinforce the fact that she is not yet pregnant, so what is the problem, what makes her ask this pointless question?
I can accept that she has not had intercourse but I cannot accept that she would give a reply such as this. There really is no reason at all for her to answer in such a way.
Even if she weren’t betrothed to Joseph, why would it be surprising to her to learn that sometime in the future she would conceive?
She might be surprised if that ‘sometime’ were tonight! Which brings us to what I called urgency in the angels voice. I know this is not in the text but she did, apparently, get pregnant that same night.
Thou shalt conceive, does not specify a period of time, and if I understand the subjunctive, it need not refer to the future. Thou shalt put up thy hands, is a statement suggesting both urgency and peril. In the context of such a moment, it is clear to the listener that the speaker is not talking about tomorrow. "Thou shalt conceive," if said just prior to mounting, would, I think, qualify as an urgent message.
I don’t doubt that the story is less than accurate but I suspect it may contain an element of truth. In those days there were ‘gods’ and there were ‘men’: Rulers and the ruled. If there is any truth to it, I must understand it as a time when one such ‘god,’ of the royal line, got a young girl pregnant out of wedlock. Wouldn't be the first time that happened. And what a line he used! - You've got royal blood?! Cool! Me Too! "This baby could be the next king!"
Such encounters were not new at the time, and they continue to happen nowadays. But today, the horney interloper might say, "This baby could be the next president!"
The more things change the more they stay the same.
db

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Brian, posted 12-24-2003 11:13 AM Brian has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by ConsequentAtheist, posted 12-25-2003 9:32 AM doctrbill has not replied

  
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