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Author Topic:   What is Christianity?
Rocky.C
Member (Idle past 3038 days)
Posts: 32
Joined: 06-17-2015


Message 167 of 451 (760663)
06-24-2015 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by jar
06-21-2015 11:12 AM


Re: still trying to define what Christianity is.
The women came to Jesus' tomb very early in the morning on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, and Jesus had already risen. John 20.
Of course he had. He was to remain in the tomb for exactly 3 days and 3 nights--72 hour.
We also know that Jesus was placed in the tomb right before evening; just before the Sabbath was to begin. So it isn't difficult (or shouldn't be) to figure out that Jesus was resurrected three days after being buried, not in the morning, but in the evening.
In Mark 16:1 & Luke 23:56 there appear to be two contradictory statements, but are they?
Mark 16:1
1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
This verse tells us that the Women did not even purchase the spices until the Sabbath had passed.
Luke 23:56
56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
This verse says the women prepared the spices before the Sabbath had even started.
In Palestine, during that time, it was time consuming to prepare spices. Being that Jesus had died so late in the day, and that the Sabbath was so close at hand, the women most certainly would not had had ample time to prepare spices before the Sabbath arrived.
So there must be an answer. And, there is.
Let's turn to John 19:31
"31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away."
See what it says!!! That Sabbath Day was a High Day. Nearly every Jew alive today can tell us what a High Day is.
It is one of God's annual Holy days. These annual holy days, except for Pentecost, could fall on any day of the week--Monday through Sunday.
This particular Sabbath was the "Feast of Unleavened Bread. It always come the day after Passover. Remember that Christ our Passover was scarified for us. Also remember that God's days began in the even shortly after Christ was killed.
The Feast of Unleavened Bread is first mentioned in Exodus 12.
15 Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.
16 And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.
17 And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever.
(The annual holy days are also described in Leviticus 23)
Notice how verse 16 (just like the weekly Sabbath) forbade work, as well as ordered a holy gathering.
Notice carefully Matthew 26:1-5
"1 And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said unto his disciples,
2 Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.
3 Then assembled together the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders of the people, unto the palace of the high priest, who was called Caiaphas,
4 And consulted that they might take Jesus by subtilty, and kill him.
5 But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar among the people."
Mark 14:2
1 After two days was the feast of the passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put him to death.
2 But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar of the people.
The Pharisees were not about to harm Jesus on this holy day. If they did they feared an uprising among the people. It was a high day, and an annual Sabbath. They had to kill Him before then.
So, we now know that Jesus was not in the tomb while it was still dark on Sunday morning.
And, since we know that He was entombed just at the going down of the sun then we know that he was resurrected at this same time. Now all we have to do is count back from Saturday--just before the going down of the sun. And when we do, we end up on Wednesday at this same time in the evening.
There is much, much, much, much more that can be learned from studying everything written about God's Holy Days, but we have seen enough to understand that this particular week had two Sabbaths. One was an annual Sabbath; the other was a weekly Sabbath.
We now understand that the women did not even purchase the herbs and spices (as recorded in Mark 16:1) until the Sabbath (the annual Sabbath) had passed.
They purchased the spices and prepared them sometime between Thursday evening after the Annual Sabbath had passed and Friday evening before the weekly Sabbath arrived.
This is why it is recorded in Luke 23:56 that the women prepared the spices and then rested on the Sabbath--in this case the weekly Sabbath.
In 31 AD The Feast fell on a Thursday. This is within the accepted time period for Christ's death.
Jesus is the mediator of a New Covenant. Nothing can be added in the Covenant after the testator dies. It cannot be changed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by jar, posted 06-21-2015 11:12 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by jar, posted 06-24-2015 2:02 PM Rocky.C has not replied

  
Rocky.C
Member (Idle past 3038 days)
Posts: 32
Joined: 06-17-2015


Message 183 of 451 (760760)
06-25-2015 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by Faith
06-24-2015 8:56 AM


Re: Sunday worship and SDA legalism
But with Jesus' atonement, we are no longer required to keep the law. We are not under law, but grace Romans 6:14-15. The Sabbath is fulfilled in Jesus. He is our rest. We are not under obligation, by law, to keep it. And this goes for the Sabbath as well. It is not a requirement that we keep the law. If we were, then we still be under the law, but we are not.
-----------------------------------------------
***How simple-minded can people be. It is actually difficult to think that a grown individual believes what you have typed. You seem to have no comprehension at all of what Paul said. It slides right across the top of your head.
This is what the two verses say:
Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Vs.15 states that we are to no longer sin. One of your own verses actually says that we are to stop sinning.
And, when we look at the very next verse:
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
We can still sin unto death. Talk about selective reading.
Also, Romans 6: 23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Do you want to know what sin is? You apparently have no idea!
1John 3:4
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Is a convicted murderer who is sentenced to death able to work for his freedom? No, absolutely not. Why? Because he is under the law, and the law demands death. Suppose that just before the date of his execution the governor reviews the man's case and pardons him. Now the prisoner is no longer under the law but under grace.
Yet, only a true idiot would suggest that the man is free to murder again. He must now follow the law. A pardon is only good for sins already committed.
Did you know that a man who says that he loves God yet refuses to obey His Commandments is a liar. Yes sir, he most certainly is.
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
1John 2:3-4 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
One cannot gain access to eternal life if they refuse to obey God's 10 Commandments. It doesn't do us any good to obey some and not the others.
Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Paul said this about the law:
Romans 7: 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. (Holy means sacred, blameless, or consecrated--in other words, worthy of religious worship).
Wouldn't it be horrible if all your neighbors were to obey the 10 Commandments. How dreadfully awful it would be to have neighbors that did not lie to us, or steal from us. I imagine that you would be furious if your neighbors did not covet you wife, and worse still if they refused to commit adultery with her
How lucky are those neighborhoods that have murders every day.
God must really love that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Faith, posted 06-24-2015 8:56 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by Faith, posted 06-25-2015 12:35 PM Rocky.C has not replied

  
Rocky.C
Member (Idle past 3038 days)
Posts: 32
Joined: 06-17-2015


Message 222 of 451 (760912)
06-26-2015 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by Faith
06-24-2015 8:56 AM


Re: Sunday worship and SDA legalism
But with Jesus' atonement, we are no longer required to keep the law. We are not under law, but grace Romans 6:14-15. The Sabbath is fulfilled in Jesus. He is our rest. We are not under obligation, by law, to keep it. And this goes for the Sabbath as well. It is not a requirement that we keep the law. If we were, then we still be under the law, but we are not.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
***There are no recorded instances in the Holy Bible showing that the early Church and the Apostles thought that the first day of the week was special. However, the Book of Acts records numerous instances of them still observing the Saturday Sabbath.
Acts13:42 "And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath."
Notice that the Gentiles pleaded with Paul to come back and preach to them the following Sabbath! If the Sabbath was no longer in force, and if it had been replaced with Sunday, wasn't this a perfect opportunity for Paul to tell the Gentile this? He could have easily said why wait until then. Let's do it tomorrow.
Acts 13:44 "And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God."
They were simply obeying the 4th Commandments.
John 15:10 "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."
Acts 17"2 "And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,"
Sure enough, obeying the 4th Commandment.
Acts 18:4 "And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks."
The Jews and the Greeks. Jesus said that the Sabbath was made for man--not just the Jews and the Israelites.
The10 Commandments have been in force since creation.
The Sabbath was set apart from the beginning.
Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Sanctify means to set apart. It means to bless it and keep it holy.
My brother believes that any day could be a Sabbath, even every day. God did not mean for man to take every day off and to have a holy convocation (a public assembly, a meeting). We are commanded to rest on the Sabbath, and to hold meetings.
God was very, very satisfied with His six days of creation. The Seventh day Sabbath keeps us focused on the Creator and on His goal.
The Sabbath was not instituted at Sinai. The Israelites observed the Sabbath by collecting a double portion on the sixth day. They were not permitted to work on the Sabbath.
Genesis 39:1-9
When Potiphar left Joseph in charge of his house Potiphar's wife tried to seduce him, but Joseph would not acquiesce;verse 9 tells us why.
9 "There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back any thing from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?"
The sin against God was adultery; Commandment #7.
When King Abimelech took Abraham's wife, Sarah, into his harem, the Lord visited Him in a dream and told him that if he touched Sarah that he would be a dead man. Genesis 20:1-9. Both God and Abimelech termed adultery "a great sin."
To commit murder as Cain did to Abel was a sin from the beginning or it would not have mattered. #6.
Both Adam and Eve stole from God--the fruit. #8
They put someone else before God--Satan. #1
They Coveted that which was not theirs. #10
They did not honour their Father--which for them was God.
Abraham obeyed God's statutes and His Commandments.
Genesis 26:5 "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."
Abraham was neither an Israelite, nor a Jew. Abraham's grandson was the progenitor of the Israelites; and, his great grandson was father of the Jews.
Hebrew 4:1-9
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Notice verse 9. The word rest is from the Greek 4521. It is "Sabbaton." The Sabbath is still a day of rest for God's people.
Again, I remind people:
1John 2:3-4 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Faith, posted 06-24-2015 8:56 AM Faith has not replied

  
Rocky.C
Member (Idle past 3038 days)
Posts: 32
Joined: 06-17-2015


(1)
Message 231 of 451 (761109)
06-28-2015 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 212 by Faith
06-26-2015 9:23 AM


Re: The Creeds as definitive of a Christian
The Holy Spirit is not a person. It is not a member of God. In OT times the concept of the Holy Spirit being God was never perpetuated.
Psalms 51:11 "Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me."
If the Holy Spirit were also God, then why didn't King David just ask the Holy Spirit not to leave him? If the Holy Spirit were a member of God, wouldn't he have freedom of choice to stay or leave as he saw fit.
The Holy Spirit is never called a personage. It is never put forward as anything more than the power of God--a force and not a personage.
The Holy Spirit is not a person. It is not a member of God. But, if it were we could not use the Apostle John's recollection of it in the 14th, 15th, and 16th chapters of the Book that bears his name as support.
In these chapters, Jesus promised to send His disciples the Comforter. And the pronoun for Comforter is "he." My brother was adamant that the pronoun "he" proved conclusively that the Holy Spirit is a personage. It did not hinder his thinking that the Holy Spirit was called "it" in Romans 8:16,26.
16 "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:... 26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."
In any event, the Greek language, like many languages, assigns a gender for every noun. The gender will either be feminine, masculine, or neuter. In the Greek language the gender of the noun has nothing to do with whether the thing is REALLY feminine or masculine.
In the OT the Hebrew word for spirit is "ruwach." It is feminine.
The English pronoun "he" is used in connection with the word "Comforter." However, this is not because of theological or spiritual reasons.
In John the Greek word for "Comforter" is "parakletos." And, it has a masculine gender, which is why the translators used the pronoun "he."
In Acts 2: 2-3 the more correct pronoun "it" is used.
Notice:
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Also notice that it (the Holy Spirit) is described (at least, the sound of) as a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the house.
Furthermore, "it"(the Holy Spirit) took on the form/appearance of cloven tongues of fire, and it actually sat on each of them. And, how can a person fill a house unless he is extremely large.
This is describing a force; a power, not a personage. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, in these verses that is describing a person.
It is interesting, to say the least, that the Greek word for spirit is "pneuma" (#4151 Strong). It refers to "a current of air," breath, or breeze.
Nothing about Pneuma suggests it being a person. Pneumatic tires and pneumonia come from pneuma.
The Holy Spirit is an impersonal power that emanates from God. God is omnipresent, but He is not a big fat blob that fills the entire universe. He is in one place, one location. But through His Spirit He is everywhere.
This should be easy for everyone to understand.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by Faith, posted 06-26-2015 9:23 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by Faith, posted 06-28-2015 12:58 PM Rocky.C has replied

  
Rocky.C
Member (Idle past 3038 days)
Posts: 32
Joined: 06-17-2015


Message 234 of 451 (761129)
06-28-2015 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 232 by Faith
06-28-2015 12:58 PM


Re: The Creeds as definitive of a Christian
The Holy Spirit is not a personage. It is not a member of the God family. Even if it were we could not us 1 John 5:7-8 (only in the KJV) as support.
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one
Portions of the KJV are not in original Greek manuscripts. It was spuriously added in the Fourteenth Century by an unscrupulous monk who was desperate for Biblical support for the trinity.
This is how vs. 7 and 8 are recorded in the NIC.
7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
The Revised Standard Translation has it:
7 For there are three that bare record, 8 the spirit, the water, and the blood:
After His earthly birth Jesus is never referred to as "the Word." From that point forward John referred to Jesus Christ by His name or by the term "Son" (of God).
If these verses were authentic, we would have the terms the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost (Spirit).
For the truly converted Christians the Holy Spirit is our earnest (Greek #728). It is a down payment; a pledge; part of a purchase price. This isn't describing a personage. It's not even close.
2Corinthians 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
If the Holy Spirit were a personage how would it be possible for someone to have a small portion of him. You would either have all or none.
The Father and the Son are Holy; no one would say otherwise. And, both of them are Spirits. They are both Holy Spirits.
The Father and the son are one. One here is not speaking of numerical value but of like-mindedness; unity; a oneness, much like a husband and wife who become one. Or, like the Apostles who were told to become one.
The Holy Spirit is the manifestation of Divine presence and Power of the Father and the Son. If this were not the case, and the Holy Spirit were a member of the God-Family, then he would be the father of Jesus, and Jesus would be guilty of calling the wrong one father.
Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."
Matthew 1:20" But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost."
John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
Whose seed impregnated Mary?
These verses should make people stop thinking stupidly. If the Holy Spirit (the term translated here is Ghost, but it comes from pneuma, just as does Spirit) were indeed a personage, he would be the father of Jesus. There is no way around this.
1 Peter 1:3 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,"
At the present time Jesus is God's only begotten (Gennao--procreate, regenerate, conceive) son. We too can become His sons, not the sons of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus told His disciples that He would not leave them comfortless.
John 14: 18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." He could do this through His Holy Spirit.
John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."
He would manifest Himself through the power (not personage) of the Holy Spirit.
John 14: 23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." They would do this through the power (not personage) of the Holy Spirit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by Faith, posted 06-28-2015 12:58 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by ringo, posted 06-28-2015 3:03 PM Rocky.C has not replied

  
Rocky.C
Member (Idle past 3038 days)
Posts: 32
Joined: 06-17-2015


Message 236 of 451 (761137)
06-28-2015 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by Faith
06-24-2015 8:56 AM


Re: Sunday worship and SDA legalism
But with Jesus' atonement, we are no longer required to keep the law. We are not under law, but grace Romans 6:14-15. The Sabbath is fulfilled in Jesus. He is our rest. We are not under obligation, by law, to keep it. And this goes for the Sabbath as well. It is not a requirement that we keep the law. If we were, then we still be under the law, but we are not.
-----------------------------------------
***Nowhere does the New Covenant say that God's Law/10 Commandments are abolished. What it does say is that He will write His Law/10 Commandments in our hearts and in our inward parts.
Nothing here says that the 4th Commandment, or any of them, is no longer required.
The People were at fault because they could not and would not obey God's Commandments. He promised a new covenant, not a new set of laws.
A covenant is an agreement. God's Holy Spirit empowers people to obey God's Holy Laws. Under the old covenant the Holy Spirit was not given, except to a precious few, such as the prophets, etc....
Jeremiah 31:31-33.
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Faith, posted 06-24-2015 8:56 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by Faith, posted 06-28-2015 4:11 PM Rocky.C has replied

  
Rocky.C
Member (Idle past 3038 days)
Posts: 32
Joined: 06-17-2015


Message 238 of 451 (761169)
06-29-2015 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 219 by Faith
06-26-2015 11:50 AM


Re: The Creeds as definitive of a Christian
As I've already stated, in Hebrew the word holy comes from qodesh, meaning a sacred place or thing. in Greek the word "holy" is translated from hagios, meaning sacred.
In Hebrew spirit is translated from ruach, meaning wind, breath, or life. In Greek spirit comes from pneuma, meaning current of air, breath, breeze.
The Holy Spirit is not a name like the Father or Christ have. Holy and Spirit simply describes what the thing is. In this case, it is Holy because it is God's; it is Spirit because it is like the wind.
Notice what Jesus told Nicodemus, where he likens spirit to wind:
John 3: 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Both the Father and Son are composed of spirit; yet, they have names and form and shape. The Holy Spirit is nowhere given a name or as having form.
It is true that the Holy Spirit is described as resembling a dove, fire, tongues, wind, comforter, etc.... But how do these terms describe a person? My wife keeps a comforter on the bed. It brings us a good deal of comfort on cold winter nights. It is called a comforter because of what it does. And, grown men attempt to ascribe a bird (dove) as a member of God.
Again, I would like to know what the name of the Holy Spirit is if he is a person. And, what relationship does he have to the Father and Son. Is he the uncle, cousin, or nephew perhaps? Jesus sits at the right hand of His Father. Where does the Holy Spirit sit?
These might seem like foolish questions, but so is the assertion that the Holy Spirit is a person.
Lucifer has a name; the angels have names. They are spirit beings but they have names.
A human have a spirit. Notice carefully 1 Corinthians 2:
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Humans have a spirit, and God has a Spirit. Having a human spirit does not mean that our spirit is a separate individual inside us no more that God's Spirit signifies His Spirit is a person.
We can only comprehend and understand the spiritual things of God when His Spirit unites with our spirit.
The spirit in man is what separates us from the animals. It allows us to understand physical knowledge. It is why we are able to rationalize and solve complex problems. But, without God's Spirit uniting with our spirit we simply cannot understand the spiritual things of God.
Remember that I explained why the Comforter (Holy Spirit) is called "he." Well the same grammatical rules apply when we read that the pronoun for moon is "she" in Matthew 24:29. And why the possessive pronoun for sun is "his" in Revelations 1:16. It is also the reason the possessive pronoun for earth is rendered "her" in Isaiah 13:13.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
God is a Holy Spirit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by Faith, posted 06-26-2015 11:50 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by Phat, posted 06-29-2015 10:59 AM Rocky.C has not replied

  
Rocky.C
Member (Idle past 3038 days)
Posts: 32
Joined: 06-17-2015


Message 248 of 451 (761277)
06-30-2015 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 237 by Faith
06-28-2015 4:11 PM


Re: Sunday worship and SDA legalism
You are right the Sabbath has not been "abolished" and I didn't say that it was. I said that it was fulfilled in Jesus. We are no longer under the Law's condemnation. You are, but those who trust in Christ's death are not. We are under grace through faith. We obey now from the heart what the legalists try to obey outwardly. Jesus is our Sabbath, we obey it by resting in Him in every way for our justification and sanctification.
---------------------------------------------
***Fulfilled does not mean that something is to be done away with. However, it does mean that one has done what is required of him.
In the 1600's (when the KJV was written) fulfilled meant to fill up, gratify, satisfy, execute, realize, bring into reality, make a reality, accomplish, comply.
In the 1600's replenish meant to fill. It was not until around 1900 that "to refill" became the primary definition.
Many words such as "bad," "cool," "gay," etc.... have revolving definitions.
Strong's define fulfilled as "replete." Replete does not mean to do away with.
Let me explain something to you. Justification means to "make innocent," Once the law has been broken we can never become innocent no matter how well we keep the law from that point forward. I have never said otherwise.
The only thing that can remove our guilt is the blood of Christ. This is the case for every human who has ever lived.
But, understand something. It only clears us of past sins. If we continue to sin after coming into the knowledge of the truth, we are no longer covered by his blood.
Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins," (This verse is plain enough for a seven year old to understand.)
And, what is sin?
1John3:4 "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."
It seems to me that those who try to obey outwardly are the same ones who refuse to love God; those who refuse to do what He says because it is not convenient for them.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
It is impossible to receive eternal life if we fail to keep His Commandments. How do we know this? Because God says so.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Those who have faith keep God's Holy Commandments.
Revelations 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus
Those who have the testimony of Jesus keep His Commandments.
Revelations 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Those who love Jesus keep His Commandments.
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
who receive eternal life keep the 10 Commandments.
Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Those who Keep God's Holy Commandments know God. Those who do not keep His Holy Commandments do not know God.
1John 2:3-4 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
The Apostle Paul kept God's Commandments
1Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
The 10 Commandments are a packaged deal. It is a sin to discard even one of them.
Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
The New Covenant makes it perfectly clear that we are to keep the law--His precious 10 Commandments. However, there was a change. It had to do with the priesthood. Jesus was of the tribe of Judah, and the tribe of Levi had been entrusted with the priesthood (Hebrews 7:11-14); therefore, a change of that law was required.
The biggest difference is that the New Covenant promised us the Holy Spirit. Those who are called by God and who make a covenant with Him are allowed to partake of the Holy Spirit--The very mind and presence of the Father and Son living within us. This is sanctification.
The Holy Spirit dwelling within us guides us into God's truths. And, it strengthens us and leads us to obey God's Commandments.
It is both an honor and a privilege to keep His Precious Commandments. We obey Him because we love Him.
Yes, it is true that we are saved by grace through faith, but that does not mean that we can sit on our haunches and twist scripture in a way that makes it a sin to try and obey God.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
God had determined beforehand that those who love Him and devote themselves to Him will have the works to show for it. Again, the Holy Spirit strengthens us to do this.
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Revelations 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by Faith, posted 06-28-2015 4:11 PM Faith has not replied

  
Rocky.C
Member (Idle past 3038 days)
Posts: 32
Joined: 06-17-2015


Message 249 of 451 (761281)
06-30-2015 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 237 by Faith
06-28-2015 4:11 PM


Re: Sunday worship and SDA legalism
double post
Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by Faith, posted 06-28-2015 4:11 PM Faith has not replied

  
Rocky.C
Member (Idle past 3038 days)
Posts: 32
Joined: 06-17-2015


Message 254 of 451 (761326)
06-30-2015 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by jar
06-23-2015 11:19 AM


Re: still trying to define what Christianity is.
The Apostle Paul wrote 14 Books of the NT. In all but Hebrews he sent greetings and salutations from God the Father and Jesus Christ to the congregations/individuals that he wrote to. There is no mention in these greetings from the Holy Spirit.
They are similar to this greetings in Romans 1:7
"To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ."
Notice verse 8
8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
If the Holy Spirit were a personage and it dwelled within Paul, then why didn't he thank God through the Holy Spirit instead of through Christ?
Wouldn't the Holy Spirit be highly offended that not once did Paul send greetings from him?
In 1 Timothy 1:5 Paul wrote: " For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" Mediator (#3316 mesites--a go-between, an intercessor),
Over and over again we see that the Holy Spirit is not a personage, but rather the very mind and power of the Father and the Son.
Notice in the following verses that the Holy Spirit is discussed in ways that are totally contrary to the concept of it being a personage.
It can be poured/poured out:
Acts 2:17 "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh:... 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit;"
Acts 10:45 "And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Isaiah 44:3 "For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:"
One can be filled with the Holy Spirit.
Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
Acts 13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,
Acts 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Check Acts 4:8,31 & 5:3. Also Luke 1:15,41, & 67.
The Holy Spirit is given. In sharp contrast to Christ who gave Himself as a ransom.
Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us."
2 Timothy1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
The Holy Spirit is a gift.
Timothy 4:14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
The Holy Spirit can be stirred up--much like a can of paint.
2 Timothy1:6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.
Jesus plainly said that his Father was greater than He. And nobody said a thing about the Holy Spirit being part of a trinity, or being as great as either the Father or the Son.
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Christians are never commanded, nor are we even asked, to believe in the trinity. Nowhere does the Holy Bible say that my eternity hinges on a belief that the Holy Spirit is a person.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by jar, posted 06-23-2015 11:19 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by jar, posted 06-30-2015 4:38 PM Rocky.C has not replied

  
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