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Author Topic:   On the evolution of English as a written or spoken language.
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 79 of 88 (760792)
06-25-2015 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by MrHambre
06-25-2015 2:42 PM


Re: Uniculturalism
... these poor communities have schools where English is taught by instructors with very little proficiency themselves.
That's a problem of course, but not nearly as big of a problem as trying to teach people world history without history text books or science without access to scientific journals and recent research.
No, you don't have to.
Then you (they) will fail.
These movements have been gaining ground, but everywhere they've been established they've only decreased access to quality education, increased poverty, and further enlarged the gap between the haves and have-nots.
In fact, they are so good at keeping the downtrodden down that one could speculate as to whether these movements are part of some conspiracy by the well-off to keep the masses manageable. It would almost be better if they were; as is, it's quite sad knowing that all of these plans are from a bunch of people thinking they are helping while doing all the wrong things.
Edited by Jon, : No reason given.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by MrHambre, posted 06-25-2015 2:42 PM MrHambre has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 81 of 88 (760960)
06-26-2015 6:27 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by ringo
06-26-2015 12:40 PM


Re: Uniculturalism
In our section we had a running joke that we were lucky to have the only professor who could actually speak English.
I imagine the rest spoke Canadian?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by ringo, posted 06-26-2015 12:40 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by ringo, posted 06-27-2015 11:37 AM Jon has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 86 of 88 (761156)
06-28-2015 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by anglagard
06-27-2015 12:02 PM


Re: Uniculturalism
I find your statement a bit too broad. How is it "practically impossible to lead a successful life" in Japan, China, Indonesia, and South Korea without knowing a European language? It seems to me hundreds of millions do just that.
I was talking specifically about Africa, where a European language (English, French) is the typical option for a 'second' language.
In Message 77 I discussed the reality as it affects the world as a whole, where I included the languages of Asia.
The bottom line is that people can't be educated in some of the native African languages. If you try to educate folks in the native language, that education will be very limited; that's why the highschools switch the kids to English: there's no practical way to teach upper-level material in the native language because the tools (text books, online information, journal articles, etc.) just don't exist in the native language.
If the folks want access to that world (and having access to that world is pretty much the only way out of crushing poverty) they'll have to learn the European language eventually, and better do it while they're young when it's easy.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by anglagard, posted 06-27-2015 12:02 PM anglagard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by anglagard, posted 06-30-2015 12:22 AM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 88 of 88 (761263)
06-30-2015 6:56 AM
Reply to: Message 87 by anglagard
06-30-2015 12:22 AM


Re: It Helps to be More Specific
I assumed that since Phat was talking about students in Africa and that I had written 'students' that my post was clearly linked to the discussion of Africa; but I will try to be more specific next time.
This much is certain, though: assuming that any Asian language is as foreign to the students as any European language (which isn't true, but let's just assume it for the sake of simplicity), it makes much more sense to educate the students in a European language (especially English) for the reasons I gave about available learning materials which your list supports.
OK, bearing the above in mind, wouldn't it be better to say "It's practically impossible to obtain a meaningful graduate degree in science, engineering, international law or business without being fluent in either one of the major European languages or, somewhat more limiting, a major Asian language." than "And it's practically impossible to live a successful life without being fluent in one of the major European languages."
Not even advanced degrees. The students Phat's article was talking about were going into highschool. Apparently it's not even possible to get a decent highschool education in Swahili. Equally apparent is the fact that the current system of educating in Swahili at the primary level doesn't do enough to prepare students for what will be required at the next level.
And an education system should be, at the very least, capable of preparing people to obtain more education.
These kids need to stop whining and start studying.
Sheesh, Jon. I agree with most of what you say but you sure make it a pain in the ass to support you when it seems we often have to spend half a dozen posts just to pin down exactly what you mean.
You seemed to figure it out

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
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