|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Gerrymandering: Another Good Supreme Court Decision | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 315 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
|
Supreme Court Backs Arizona's Redistricting Commission Targeting Gridlock : The Two-Way : NPR
By a 5-4 majority, the Supreme Court has decided that "the voters should choose their representatives, not the other way around". Guess who were the four dissenting justices. It's not difficult. They're on a roll. Well, a majority of them are on a roll. The others are choking on their bitter tears, which is perfectly fine with me.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vimesey Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined: |
I've been reading with interest the posts on here relating to SCOTUS decisions.
Over in the UK, our judiciary isn't elected (although there have been calls for it to be, on occasion). We emphasise the importance of the separation of powers, more than we do individual accountability of the judges to the people. So we get occasional idiot judges, whose decisions can be influenced by their prejudices, being somewhat unaccountable for their decisions (though the more egregious examples do result in them being quietly retired). On the other hand, they don't end up being the politically partisan institution represented by SCOTUS - effectively, a third legislative body. I wonder whether a middle ground is possible. I suspect not. Edited by vimesey, : SpellingCould there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9517 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Vimesey writes: wonder whether a middle ground is possible. I suspect not. I think our system actually IS the middle ground. Our judiciary is properly independent of government and has a very intricate system of appeals that act as a back stop for the worst individual judgements and provide precedent to prevent future errors. But it is still responsible to the people through parliament - if it changes the law, the judges are required to follow it even if they personally disagree with it. We also have European law sat on the top of the lot - which I think is generally very good for us, tho' not without its own problems.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vimesey Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined: |
In many ways, much of what we do is the middle ground, having had several centuries of compromise and political evolution, rather than a moment of single creation (ok, in the US case, several moments, with the various amendments).
I was looking more at the contrast between a completely independent judiciary, separated from the politics of the executive and the legislature; and a judiciary which is elected and/or the result of political appointment. I'm not sure there can be any introduction of any element of election of the judiciary (directly or through political appointment), which can be achieved whilst keeping it ruthlessly independent of the legislature/executive. My personal preference is for judicial independence, but I understand that it can rankle with those who cannot accept an authority which isn't formally accountable to a public vote. I do see judicial authority as distinct from political authority, however.Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
I'm not sure there can be any introduction of any element of election of the judiciary (directly or through political appointment), which can be achieved whilst keeping it ruthlessly independent of the legislature/executive. How else is the position filled? Rock-paper-scissors?Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vimesey Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined: |
We went with a Judicial Appointments Commission - an independent body set up to deal with judges' appointments.
(Slower than rock paper scissors, but a better outcome on the whole).Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
Over in the UK, our judiciary isn't elected (although there have been calls for it to be, on occasion). Just to be clear, in the US, judges on the state and local level are elected while federal judges are appointed by the federal executive with Congressional oversight. In some jurisdictions the state and local elections are partisan, while in others the judges have no party affiliations.
On the other hand, they don't end up being the politically partisan institution represented by SCOTUS - effectively, a third legislative body. Again in the US, Supreme Court Justices are appointed by the president and vetted by Congress. The presidential appointment is accepted a very high percentage of the time, but the Justices are not elected. How does the UK prevent the justices in their highest courts from becoming partisan. How is the Independent Commission chosen? Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vimesey Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined: |
Thank you for the info NoNukes - that's helpful.
How does the UK prevent the justices in their highest courts from becoming partisan. How is the Independent Commission chosen? The process relies very heavily upon professionalism, and a deep-rooted belief in the value of independence amongst the legal profession. There have been judges who, over the years, have probably pushed the envelope a little in the direction of their own personal morality - Lord Denning was well known for being pretty diligent in digging up obscure law to support those he felt were less powerful than their opponents - but central to any judge's views is the need for ruthless independence from politics. It's an ingrained, professional view. Add to that, we have a reasonably large number of senior judges who are entitled to sit on the Supreme Court's hearings, and they get swapped around from case to case (partly on the basis of their expertise, and partly randomly). The independent commission, having initially been set up by statute, partially self-selects, through interview - and accepts 20% of its membership through nomination by the judiciary itself. There must be a non-lawyer included in the commission, who is a member of the public.Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
We went with a Judicial Appointments Commission - an independent body set up to deal with judges' appointments. So you're saying they use the political appointment option. Okay. Edited by Jon, : No reason given.Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vimesey Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined: |
No.
We have institutions which are part of the public administration over here, and which are independent of politics. It's an extremely effective part of our constitution.Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
We have institutions which are part of the public administration over here, and which are independent of politics. At this point I have no idea what the hell you mean by 'politics' because in every sane understanding of the idea 'institutions which are part of the public administration' are definitely political.Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vimesey Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined: |
The judiciary and the Judicial Appointments Commission have no involvement in politics, and the political parties have no control or influence over them. We don't identify our judiciary as conservative or liberal (or any other shade of political leaning). They aren't appointed by reference to their political views.
Nevertheless, they are one of the key institutions in the constitution. Public, yes - political, no.Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
I think you should review the definition of 'politics', because I have no idea where you're drawing the line.
If you only mean to say that the system doesn't tend to play the party game, you could have just said that Edited by Jon, : No reason given.Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vimesey Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined: |
The use of the word political to refer to the politics of politicians is by a long stretch the most common use of the word in the UK. My apologies if it's more commonly used in its classical sense in the States.
Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 315 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
At this point I have no idea what the hell you mean by 'politics' because in every sane understanding of the idea 'institutions which are part of the public administration' are definitely political. No, they're governmental.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024