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Author Topic:   What's the deal with motor vehicle violations?
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 5 of 239 (763203)
07-22-2015 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
07-22-2015 6:59 AM


Percy writes:
The officer was polite and professional but seemed intent on impressing upon me how heinous my violation was.
In the context of a courtroom, it would be. In the real-life context, going the speed limit would have been more dangerous.
A police officer's job is to bridge the gap between real life and the court room. Being "professional" sometimes requires following the letter of the law, sometimes the spirit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Percy, posted 07-22-2015 6:59 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 58 of 239 (763402)
07-24-2015 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Omnivorous
07-23-2015 9:36 PM


Omnivorous writes:
Based on personal experience, I think that despite screening and testing, many of those drawn to a career in law enforcement are attracted more by the power than the service.
The problem is that they're also pretty good at manipulating the screeners - and the straight arrows who do the screening are pretty innocent to the possibility.

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 Message 48 by Omnivorous, posted 07-23-2015 9:36 PM Omnivorous has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 91 of 239 (763482)
07-25-2015 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by Percy
07-24-2015 5:56 PM


Percy writes:
"I fought the school and the school won." Would taking on the "law" be any easier?
The difference is that the school system is aimed at middle-class white people; it's middle-class white people versus middle-class white people. The police, on the other hand, are middle-class white people against "them" - them often being lower-class black or brown people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Percy, posted 07-24-2015 5:56 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Percy, posted 07-25-2015 12:19 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 127 of 239 (765461)
07-29-2015 3:41 PM


On a related note, Kitchener women say they were stopped by police for cycling topless. The officer (allegedly) lied about receiving complaints and then about why he stopped them.

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 164 of 239 (765770)
08-05-2015 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by Jon
08-04-2015 9:37 PM


Re: Police at Risk in Traffic Stops
Jon writes:
... the police cannot wait till its pointing at their face to see if it really is a gun before taking action.
Tell that to the gun nuts who think a gun is a defensive weapon. You have to shoot first.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Jon, posted 08-04-2015 9:37 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by Jon, posted 08-05-2015 9:17 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 173 of 239 (765816)
08-06-2015 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by Jon
08-05-2015 9:17 PM


Re: Police at Risk in Traffic Stops
Jon writes:
The police have the right to shoot first...
I would use the word "authority" instead of "right" - and investing too much authority in the police is the beginning of authoritarianism.
Jon writes:
... (otherwise what good would they be?)....
Frankly, I would rather see more cops killed and fewer innocent civilians killed by cops.

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 Message 166 by Jon, posted 08-05-2015 9:17 PM Jon has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by NoNukes, posted 08-06-2015 2:50 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 186 of 239 (766304)
08-16-2015 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by Dogmafood
08-08-2015 12:26 PM


Re: Police at Risk in Traffic Stops
Prototypical writes:
I think that Percy has the right idea of separating traffic enforcement from general policing.
We already separate parking enforcement form traffic enforcement and general policing. Of course, parked cars generally don't have people in them. The people are the distinguishing factor, not the vehicles.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Dogmafood, posted 08-08-2015 12:26 PM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by Dogmafood, posted 08-17-2015 3:18 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 188 of 239 (766336)
08-17-2015 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by Dogmafood
08-17-2015 3:18 AM


Re: Police at Risk in Traffic Stops
ProtoTypical writes:
The solution is for all of the people to treat the other people as they would be treated. Cops and criminals don't do that so much.
Stop galloping, Gish.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Dogmafood, posted 08-17-2015 3:18 AM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by Dogmafood, posted 08-18-2015 9:07 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 193 of 239 (766433)
08-18-2015 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 192 by Dogmafood
08-18-2015 9:07 AM


Re: Police at Risk in Traffic Stops
ProtoTypical writes:
It's not gish galloping it's the free citizen agitation boogie.
Whatever you call it, it's unnecessary. I'm not disagreeing with you.
I was just pointing out why traffic enforcement is lumped in with crime enforcement instead of with parking enforcement. It's because the traffic law breakers are just as dangerous to the public as criminal law breakers and they're liable to be just as dangerous to police too.
The police are not dealing with "us" and "them". We are all "them". If you want the police to treat you well, you have to let them treat "criminals" the same way - because they can't tell the difference.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by Dogmafood, posted 08-18-2015 9:07 AM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by Dogmafood, posted 08-20-2015 8:37 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 197 of 239 (766762)
08-21-2015 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 195 by Dogmafood
08-20-2015 8:37 PM


Re: Police at Risk in Traffic Stops
ProtoTypical writes:
A criminal means to do you harm and a minor traffic violation is in no way even remotely similar.
Hogwash. A police officer in a traffic stop has no way of knowing whether the driver means him harm or not.
ProtoTypical writes:
We don't treat people like criminals until we know that they are, in fact, criminals.
Of course we do. We arrest suspected criminals and we lock them up like criminals and we have a whole court system to determine IF they are criminals.
ProtoTypical writes:
If you can't tell that they are a criminal then I would suggest that they are not a criminal and shouldn't be treated like one.
What magical powers do you think a police officer has to tell "us" from "them" before he asks for ID? All I'm saying is that a police officer needs to assume that every stranger is a potential danger until he DOES know who it is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Dogmafood, posted 08-20-2015 8:37 PM Dogmafood has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by petrophysics1, posted 08-21-2015 9:05 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 215 of 239 (766832)
08-22-2015 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 207 by petrophysics1
08-21-2015 9:05 PM


Re: Police at Risk in Traffic Stops
petrophysics writes:
I am not required in any way to give an ID or tell a policeman who I am.
So Wyoming cops don't ask for license and registration when they pull you over for running the red light?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by petrophysics1, posted 08-21-2015 9:05 PM petrophysics1 has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 220 of 239 (768737)
09-13-2015 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 218 by Dogmafood
08-23-2015 12:01 PM


Re: Police at Risk in Traffic Stops
ProtoTypical writes:
I sure wouldn't go into some of those situations without one.
That's based on the premise that adding guns to a situation improves the situation. I would suggest that a police officer is more likely to defuse a situation rather than escalate it if he doesn't have the means to escalate it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by Dogmafood, posted 08-23-2015 12:01 PM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by Dogmafood, posted 09-15-2015 9:01 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 442 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 222 of 239 (769102)
09-16-2015 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by Dogmafood
09-15-2015 9:01 PM


Re: Police at Risk in Traffic Stops
ProtoTypical writes:
It is based on the premise that adding your own gun improves your odds of defending yourself against someone who is shooting at you.
That premise is false. A gun is not a defensive weapon. If somebody "is shooting at you" you're most likely already dead. The only way to win a gunfight is to shoot first.
But you're missing the point. Having guns makes police more likely to use violence - and sometimes when they use violence it's inappropriate. The culture of "self defense" that you're preaching is what causes innocent people to be killed by police.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Dogmafood, posted 09-15-2015 9:01 PM Dogmafood has not replied

  
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