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Author | Topic: What's the deal with motor vehicle violations? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Percy writes:
In the context of a courtroom, it would be. In the real-life context, going the speed limit would have been more dangerous. The officer was polite and professional but seemed intent on impressing upon me how heinous my violation was. A police officer's job is to bridge the gap between real life and the court room. Being "professional" sometimes requires following the letter of the law, sometimes the spirit.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Omnivorous writes:
The problem is that they're also pretty good at manipulating the screeners - and the straight arrows who do the screening are pretty innocent to the possibility.
Based on personal experience, I think that despite screening and testing, many of those drawn to a career in law enforcement are attracted more by the power than the service.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Percy writes:
The difference is that the school system is aimed at middle-class white people; it's middle-class white people versus middle-class white people. The police, on the other hand, are middle-class white people against "them" - them often being lower-class black or brown people.
"I fought the school and the school won." Would taking on the "law" be any easier?
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
On a related note, Kitchener women say they were stopped by police for cycling topless. The officer (allegedly) lied about receiving complaints and then about why he stopped them.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
Tell that to the gun nuts who think a gun is a defensive weapon. You have to shoot first.
... the police cannot wait till its pointing at their face to see if it really is a gun before taking action.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
I would use the word "authority" instead of "right" - and investing too much authority in the police is the beginning of authoritarianism.
The police have the right to shoot first... Jon writes:
Frankly, I would rather see more cops killed and fewer innocent civilians killed by cops.
... (otherwise what good would they be?)....
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Prototypical writes:
We already separate parking enforcement form traffic enforcement and general policing. Of course, parked cars generally don't have people in them. The people are the distinguishing factor, not the vehicles.
I think that Percy has the right idea of separating traffic enforcement from general policing.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ProtoTypical writes:
Stop galloping, Gish.
The solution is for all of the people to treat the other people as they would be treated. Cops and criminals don't do that so much.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ProtoTypical writes:
Whatever you call it, it's unnecessary. I'm not disagreeing with you. It's not gish galloping it's the free citizen agitation boogie. I was just pointing out why traffic enforcement is lumped in with crime enforcement instead of with parking enforcement. It's because the traffic law breakers are just as dangerous to the public as criminal law breakers and they're liable to be just as dangerous to police too. The police are not dealing with "us" and "them". We are all "them". If you want the police to treat you well, you have to let them treat "criminals" the same way - because they can't tell the difference.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ProtoTypical writes:
Hogwash. A police officer in a traffic stop has no way of knowing whether the driver means him harm or not.
A criminal means to do you harm and a minor traffic violation is in no way even remotely similar. ProtoTypical writes:
Of course we do. We arrest suspected criminals and we lock them up like criminals and we have a whole court system to determine IF they are criminals.
We don't treat people like criminals until we know that they are, in fact, criminals. ProtoTypical writes:
What magical powers do you think a police officer has to tell "us" from "them" before he asks for ID? All I'm saying is that a police officer needs to assume that every stranger is a potential danger until he DOES know who it is.
If you can't tell that they are a criminal then I would suggest that they are not a criminal and shouldn't be treated like one.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
petrophysics writes:
So Wyoming cops don't ask for license and registration when they pull you over for running the red light?
I am not required in any way to give an ID or tell a policeman who I am.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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ProtoTypical writes:
That's based on the premise that adding guns to a situation improves the situation. I would suggest that a police officer is more likely to defuse a situation rather than escalate it if he doesn't have the means to escalate it.
I sure wouldn't go into some of those situations without one.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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ProtoTypical writes:
That premise is false. A gun is not a defensive weapon. If somebody "is shooting at you" you're most likely already dead. The only way to win a gunfight is to shoot first. It is based on the premise that adding your own gun improves your odds of defending yourself against someone who is shooting at you. But you're missing the point. Having guns makes police more likely to use violence - and sometimes when they use violence it's inappropriate. The culture of "self defense" that you're preaching is what causes innocent people to be killed by police.
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