Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,909 Year: 4,166/9,624 Month: 1,037/974 Week: 364/286 Day: 7/13 Hour: 2/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   If US is a "Christian Nation" what brand is it?
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2727 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 3 of 22 (775894)
01-06-2016 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
01-06-2016 11:17 AM


A(n ex-)Mormon Perspective
Hi, RAZD.
Mainstream Mormon beliefs do hold that the U.S. Constitution was inspired by God, which is not an unusual thing for an American church to believe.
The idea that the Constitution therefore counts as 'scripture,' is somewhat... less mainstream. The argument "inspired by God, therefore scripture" is a common Mormon meme, but I think most Mormons still see a distinction between 'scripture' and 'ScriptureTM.'
-----
There are other stories in Mormon history that link the Constitution to the LDS Church in various ways. For example, one Mormon prophet, Wilford Woodruff, claimed that the founding fathers appeared to him in a vision, requesting that he conduct their temple ordinances by proxy for them (and censuring the Church for not having done that work yet). Of course, there are some problems with his claim, but it's a good example of how the LDS Church views the link between the 'one true religion' and the 'greatest nation on Earth.'
Edited by Blue Jay, : typo
Edited by Blue Jay, : other typo

-Blue Jay, Ph.D.*
*Yeah, it's real
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by RAZD, posted 01-06-2016 11:17 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by RAZD, posted 01-06-2016 1:57 PM Blue Jay has replied

  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2727 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


(1)
Message 6 of 22 (775904)
01-06-2016 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by RAZD
01-06-2016 1:57 PM


Re: A(n ex-)Mormon Perspective
Hi, RAZD.
RAZD writes:
This is not much different what Faith's always claiming and other evangelical Christian's. So who's right?
None of them, I think. The US Constitution was an imperfect, though forward-thinking, document that allowed future generations to build this nation into something great (though still imperfect). Mythologizing it or trying to superimpose a divine will onto it is unjustifiable, in my opinion.
If we had to choose one though, I'm sticking with Mormonism, because I've yet to overcome the social conditioning that has instilled a pro-Mormon bias in me.
The LDS Church argues that the freedoms granted by the Bill of Rights paved the way for the Restoration of the Lord's True Church (which arguably couldn't have happened under other socio-political systems of the time). So, Mormonism is rather intimately linked with the Constitution in that regard. I suppose Faith would likely argue the same thing about her brand of Christianity: the Constitution and the Bill of Rights were necessary steps on the road to the emergence of the True Way.
It would be rather more difficult for the Catholics or Lutherans (to name a few) to make the same claim.
RAZD writes:
Like Jar's god\God\GOD distinction? I would take from this that they would put (Mormon) "ScriptureTM" ahead of (constitution) "scripture" when there is a conflict, hence insurrection?
Yeah, I borrowed Jar's terminology a little there.
And, you'd probably get a lot of Mormon objections that claim that there are no conflicts between the Scriptures and the Constitution, because they both c8me from the same source.
Mormonism might have a somewhat better claim to this than other churches, simply because the people in the Book of Mormon are very (suspiciously?) American-like in their championing of freedom and human rights (such as the Captain Moroni mentioned in the news article you linked to); while the Bible is... somewhat less clear in its support of democratic principles.

-Blue Jay, Ph.D.*
*Yeah, it's real
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by RAZD, posted 01-06-2016 1:57 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by RAZD, posted 01-06-2016 2:46 PM Blue Jay has seen this message but not replied
 Message 9 by caffeine, posted 01-06-2016 4:18 PM Blue Jay has seen this message but not replied

  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2727 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


(2)
Message 16 of 22 (775981)
01-07-2016 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Hyroglyphx
01-06-2016 11:48 PM


Hi, Hyroglyphx.
Hyroglyphx writes:
Absolutely not a Mormon nation. Mormonism was ran out of the Eastern United States by a band of unpatriotic bigots. Lol, Joseph Smith, the self-proclaimed divinely-appointed prophet was killed martyred in a shootout by a mob of persecutors.
Fixed that for you. Geez, it's a good thing there's a(n ex-)Mormon around to edit your history correct your misinformation, otherwise who knows what harm your blasphemous words might have done to all the innocent souls around here.

-Blue Jay, Ph.D.*
*Yeah, it's real
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Hyroglyphx, posted 01-06-2016 11:48 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Hyroglyphx, posted 01-08-2016 5:04 AM Blue Jay has seen this message but not replied

  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2727 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


(3)
Message 22 of 22 (776346)
01-12-2016 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Hyroglyphx
01-06-2016 11:48 PM


Hi, Hyroglyphx.
Hyroflyphx writes:
Absolutely not a Mormon nation. Mormonism was ran out of the Eastern United States. Lol, Joseph Smith, the self-proclaimed prophet was killed in a shootout. That's how much he was viewed as a dangerous heretic
Maybe this deserves a more serious response than I gave it last time.
I'd obviously have to agree with you that the USA isn't a Mormon nation: we've never had a Mormon president (sorry, Mitt), there's a history of the Mormon community being in conflict with federal and state governments, and the basic tenets of Mormonism remain arcane to most of the country's citizens.
However, I think Mormonism is a key indicator of exactly what kind of nation we are, and have always been. The ability of an unpopular 'cult' to be born from humble beginnings, survive the hardships it suffered (or brought upon itself, depending on how you view the history), to eventually carve out a niche for itself, and ultimately grow into the 3rd(?) largest religious organization in the country... is testament to the fact that we are a nation that has always let people believe what they want (more or less).
Granted, the conflicts of Mormon history are also testament to the legacy of religious tensions and misunderstandings of our society, but I think it's all part of the learning process. We've come a long way toward reconciling our religious diversity with our secular government, and it would sure be a shame if we let sectarian claims to cultural hegemony ruin all that.

-Blue Jay, Ph.D.*
*Yeah, it's real
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Hyroglyphx, posted 01-06-2016 11:48 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024