Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,912 Year: 4,169/9,624 Month: 1,040/974 Week: 367/286 Day: 10/13 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Do you care what happens next?
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9516
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 21 of 68 (777205)
01-27-2016 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Faith
01-27-2016 12:01 PM


Re: You don't have to be a Christian to object to the physical explanation of everything
Faith writes:
I don't know why I had that mental set
I do. And so does science.
You felt that way because people have conscious minds that are able to think hard about such things. Our mind sets us apart from all other life and makes us feel important, special, different. Surely, we say to ourselves, we're not just like everything else?
But it's just hubris, we are like everything else. Science has shown us that and those, like you, who think they must be special anyway turn to religion to make it so.
You were simply making the mistake of only noticing the science that conflicts with your internal feelings of being special - and now with the science that shows that your religious beliefs that make you special - are wrong. It's a perfectly natural feeling and process.
But you fail to understand that those small bits of science that you notice - evolution, pychology, sociology etc are all linked by the scientific method (some more successfully than others) and most are linked by basic chemical and physical processes that have been proven empirically to be true. So when you object to the fact that the earth is very old, you object to many branches of science supporting it without even knowing it.
Not that that bothers you much, you're too happy feeling special.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Faith, posted 01-27-2016 12:01 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Omnivorous, posted 01-27-2016 3:52 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9516
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.1


(2)
Message 25 of 68 (777225)
01-27-2016 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Omnivorous
01-27-2016 3:52 PM


Re: You don't have to be a Christian to object to the physical explanation of everything
Omni writes:
I think we're special.
Sure, but so is flight, breathing under water, sensing pheromones over 2 miles away, echo location, sight etc etc. Consciousness and its consequencies seem just more impressive. To us.
If we weren't built out of the same chemicals as a beetle and a banana, we might have cause to wonder, but knowing beyond doubt that we're as much part of the natural development of life on earth and a recent one at that, makes it all a bit moot.
We're special for sure, but not special enough to be immortal or supernatural. Just special enough to think that we're so special that we're not disposable - which we obviously are and we find it difficult to live with that knowledge so we invent all sorts of nonsense to cope.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Omnivorous, posted 01-27-2016 3:52 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by 1.61803, posted 01-27-2016 5:35 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 29 by Omnivorous, posted 01-27-2016 8:41 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9516
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 36 of 68 (777283)
01-28-2016 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by 1.61803
01-27-2016 5:35 PM


Re: You don't have to be a Christian to object to the physical explanation of everything
1.6 writes:
Regardless of ones religious belief or lack thereof; all but the most ardent nihilist can see that there is more to us than the sum of our parts.
I don't understand this argument. We are the sum of our parts. The fact that one part is consciousness doesn't change that.
Nonsense or not we choose the bed of our making. Some are comforted by the thought of heaven and some are comforted in the belief of a life well spent.
Sure we get through this veil of tears one way or another.
It is perhaps the regretful man that must face his twilight looking into the emptiness of his own absurdity and thus comfort himself that none of it really matters.
It's pretty obvious that none of this really matters, that doesn't mean that whilst we're around, we can't live fulfilling lives - by whatever measure you care to use.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by 1.61803, posted 01-27-2016 5:35 PM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by 1.61803, posted 01-28-2016 5:13 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 43 by Omnivorous, posted 01-28-2016 6:25 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9516
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 37 of 68 (777285)
01-28-2016 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Omnivorous
01-27-2016 8:41 PM


Re: You don't have to be a Christian to object to the physical explanation of everything
Omni writes:
And we can replicate all those things with technology. All nature has to do is show the monkey something...
We're smart critters for sure, but we're still critters built of the same stuff and destined for the same oblivion.
I don't understand what is mooted by the commonality of life.
The fact that we're special. We're a product of a natural, 'unthinking' process that produced both the beetle and the banana. In 100 years we could be gone. There isn't even any one to miss us. We're that special.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Omnivorous, posted 01-27-2016 8:41 PM Omnivorous has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9516
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 39 of 68 (777295)
01-28-2016 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by 1.61803
01-28-2016 5:13 PM


Re: You don't have to be a Christian to object to the physical explanation of everything
1.6 writes:
But when I see something beautiful I do not see just the chemical composition of it.
Nobody does, but if they did, they'd probably find that beautiful too
And if in your mind we are nothing more than ape-shaped bags of water you probably didnt get the least bit misty eyed during this scene in Soylent Green.
I'm not sure what to do with this, it contains too many falacies and assumptions. You seems to be saying that because you - and, as it happens, I - find some things beautiful and emotional, that makes any difference to the reality of our existence. Why should it?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by 1.61803, posted 01-28-2016 5:13 PM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by 1.61803, posted 01-28-2016 6:01 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9516
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 41 of 68 (777297)
01-28-2016 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by 1.61803
01-28-2016 6:01 PM


Re: You don't have to be a Christian to object to the physical explanation of everything
1.6 writes:
I will venture forth a guess ol' chap and say...quality of life"?
Nope, still don't get it.
Are you suggesting that you have a better quality of life than - I don't know - a honey bee? How could any possible comparison be made? And if true what does it matter? Perhaps a dolphin has a better quality of life than a cod. So what?
We're just a different animal species, and of course our evolved brain has made us conscious agents which we feel is special - and it is - but so what? We're just as biodegradable as a bluebottle.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by 1.61803, posted 01-28-2016 6:01 PM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by 1.61803, posted 01-29-2016 10:01 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9516
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 45 of 68 (777302)
01-28-2016 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Omnivorous
01-28-2016 6:25 PM


Re: You don't have to be a Christian to object to the physical explanation of everything
Omni writes:
I agree we can live fulfilling lives regardless
Ok so we can put that argument aside
but whether or not all this really matters-- in some larger way that we would care about if we knew--is an open question.
If we do not and can not know, what are we supposed to do about it except make shit up like religion to confirm how special we are and then fight over who made up the best one?
Why not enjoy life and live it in the best way we can without fear, favour or hubris? You know, 'do as you would be done by' while smelling the roses and admitting they share the same DNA.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Omnivorous, posted 01-28-2016 6:25 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Omnivorous, posted 01-30-2016 6:09 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9516
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 57 of 68 (777369)
01-29-2016 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by 1.61803
01-29-2016 10:01 AM


Re: You don't have to be a Christian to object to the physical explanation of everything
1.6 etc writes:
Hi Tangle,
I was once dated a very beautiful and intelligent, audiology grad student vegan.[...] But I digress;
Yes but it seemed rude to interupt.
So whats the point in this?
Having the winning arguments doesn't necessarily get you laid?
Our quality of life is, I would hope, a few rungs above a cows.
What if the cow gets laid regularly?
And if one eats the cow or wears the cow it really doesn't matter to the cow. But damn does it matter.
Does it? Did you care before you were born and do people care after they die? Whilst we're alive it's important how we live, but in the great scheme of things, it's utterly irrelevant. It's best in life to have no sense of perspective, therein lies happiness. Just like a cow.
Consciousness has big downsides.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by 1.61803, posted 01-29-2016 10:01 AM 1.61803 has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024