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Author Topic:   Do you care what happens next?
AZPaul3
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Posts: 8564
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


(7)
Message 7 of 68 (777093)
01-26-2016 2:25 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Omnivorous
01-25-2016 7:05 PM


I wonder if it will be friends with me?
Some humans are not imbued with curiosity. Enough of us are, however, that all of human history has resulted. What’s over the next hill? What’s on the other side of this ocean? What is that hot burning light in our sky and where does it go at night? What does Saturn look like when it eclipses the sun? What's happening? Who am I? Why am I here? What's my purpose in life? What do I mean by who am I?
If it wasn’t for the curiosity, the questioning, the search for answers, the search for knowledge, we would be nothing better than cows grazing on the open plains.
Your Mr. Picard may see knowledge of our universe’s origins, future, ends, as powerless and yet these questions had the power to spur all of human development from that first moment some monkey looked to the night sky in wonder.
I have to agree with Mr. Picard’s view that this is the source of madness, however. Most of human history has been madness, hasn’t it.
For me personally, a great internal itch that nags the back of my mind would quiesce knowing these answers about our universe. No, that knowledge would not make me rich, get me laid or solve global warming, but it would give me some internal comfort, a bit of calming peace like when a tough job is finally done well.
I have always liked the idea of a cyclical universe. Even if it is trillions upon trillions of eons after the last photon finally flatlines out of existence in this universe, I find a bit of satisfaction that another quantum fluctuation, or our neighboring brane-world bangs into ours, would flood our universe with energy again precipitating yet another inflationary-big bang or whatever. It just appeals to me. Whatever the case may be, cyclic or not, the most satisfying piece would be the knowing.

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 Message 1 by Omnivorous, posted 01-25-2016 7:05 PM Omnivorous has replied

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8564
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


(7)
Message 42 of 68 (777298)
01-28-2016 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by 1.61803
01-28-2016 5:13 PM


Re: You don't have to be a Christian to object to the physical explanation of everything
But when I see something beautiful I do not see just the chemical composition of it.
Is that all there is, a dichotomy? Can't I intellectually recognize that this oak tree is composed of star stuff while simultaneously enjoying the aesthetics of its over arching branches?
Can I not understand that love is a reaction of specific chemistry and neuronal activity while simultaneously being happy and fulfilled in being bathed in its warmth?
Just because we know the composition and study the physical interconnectedness of brain lobes does not mean we cannot revel in the use of our own human conscience.
Just because all things are, in fact, the sum of their parts does not preclude recognizing and, more so, appreciating the beauty and wonder of their emergent properties without evoking the absurdity of some supernatural silliness.

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 Message 38 by 1.61803, posted 01-28-2016 5:13 PM 1.61803 has replied

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 Message 44 by Omnivorous, posted 01-28-2016 6:32 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8564
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 46 of 68 (777303)
01-28-2016 7:16 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Omnivorous
01-28-2016 6:25 PM


Re: You don't have to be a Christian to object to the physical explanation of everything
Tangle writes:
It's pretty obvious that none of this really matters.
Omni writes:
It's not obvious to me. I agree we can live fulfilling lives regardless, but whether or not all this really matters-- in some larger way that we would care about if we knew--is an open question.
To my mind you are both right.
Different strokes for different folks.
For some, knowing the fate of this universe would matter, to a greater or lesser degree, as an intellectual curiosity. Fulfilling, satisfying, that adds perceived value to the quality of their lives. To others, such would matter no more than wondering if there is a specific lizard living under a specific rock in the middle of the Sonoran Desert. An answer adds no value, perceived or otherwise, to their lives.
Tangle wins out in the end, though. 150 million years from now knowing the answer to the universe question or to the lizard question probably won't matter at all to any of the three of us.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8564
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 51 of 68 (777346)
01-29-2016 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by 1.61803
01-29-2016 10:17 AM


Re: You don't have to be a Christian to object to the physical explanation of everything
It is when someone is spouting off nihilist clap trap that "nothing matters, and we are no more important than a amoeba. Usually for the sole purpose of being provocative.
How can you be provoked by this when they are, in fact, correct? And so are you.
Perspective. Frame of reference.
From the perspective of any other galaxy in the universe we are so unimportant and matter so little as to be non-existent. As far as star stuff and chemistry and evolution and life we really are neither more nor less "important" than an amoeba.
To your wife, your two girlfriends and your dog, however, you are a very important and special creature that matters a great deal in their lives. Depending upon how you care to define special we humans are indeed quite special for our intellect, creativity and curiosity over any other life form on this planet.
Yet, by some other definitions of special we don't even make the list.
To me, the ultimate test is in the far future. 150 million years from now, other than a few curious trinkets lying in the ground, our individual lives along with the extinction of our species, will matter next to nothing.
So, yeah, except as made by us individually where it can matter very dearly, none of this really matters at all.
This is why philosophy sucks. I can have my cake and eat it too and while it may seem important at the time it really isn't for shit.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

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 Message 48 by 1.61803, posted 01-29-2016 10:17 AM 1.61803 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Faith, posted 01-29-2016 3:13 PM AZPaul3 has replied
 Message 67 by Stile, posted 02-01-2016 9:44 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8564
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 56 of 68 (777365)
01-29-2016 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Faith
01-29-2016 3:13 PM


Re: You don't have to be a Christian to object to the physical explanation of everything
Yes, our objective capacities, intellect etc, OK but even those sometimes get reduced to physicalities by the science-minded.
Is there some type of problem understanding the physical dimensions of intellect? Does that understanding somehow reduce its usefulness and function?
Knowing that your potato naturally contains 4-O-caffeoylquinic acid (crypto-chlorogenic acid), 5-O-caffeoylquinic (neo-chlorogenic acid), 3,4-dicaffeoylquinic and 3,5-dicaffeoylquinic acids, does this somehow detract from your enjoyment of its taste when baked with a little olive oil and salt?
But what kind of "perspective" is that since there is no consciousness in any of that? This is the very mentality I was objecting to. We can't be meaningfully compared to the mindless cold vastness of the universe at all...
No other consciousness in the universe? Pshaw! The numbers are too big and the chemistry too active for there not to be. But that's off-topic.
What is on-topic is that fact that we are as unimportant to them as they presently are to us. As far as "mattering" to our lives they are as non-existent to us as we are to them.
Plus the fact that we and the amoeba and the rock on the side of the road are all products of this vast mindless cold universe and that makes the comparisons compelling not nonsensical. And that compelling comparison is that we are all come to be from the same materials from the same sources by the same physics.
The only importance to be given among the three is the subjective value we ourselves assign.
Believing in God makes it possible to explain it though, which the physical sciences can never do.
Your fairy tale is just an excuse to assign subjective values making you feel superior to all the rest of the stuff around you in this vast cold mindless universe that really doesn't give a damn what we think.
I absolutely cannot care about the fate of the physical universe apart from Us, or apart from any living thing for that matter, but especially Us.
That is just fine. That answers Omnivorous' question. And yours is as valid an answer as any.
I, as I stated, don't so much care to any great extent other than having the intellectual satisfaction of knowing. That would be good.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Faith, posted 01-29-2016 3:13 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Faith, posted 01-29-2016 9:10 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied
 Message 59 by Faith, posted 01-29-2016 9:14 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
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